Strange roof behaviour - motor or something else?

G

georgekitchen7

Member
 Bromsgrove, Worcestershire
Hi all,

I've had my Z4 3.0si for about 6 months, and I've had it garaged over the winter. I checked the roof operation a couple of weeks ago, and all was well. Up and down, no problem.

However, I tried it today, and, to start with the roof unlatched and, slowly, opened part way, then stopped. I then closed the roof using the close button, and it closed successfully.

I tried to open the roof again, again it unlatched and opened a little less far this time, so I closed it again.

The next time I tried to open it unlatched, but then no movement at all.

So it was getting progressively worse, but nothing was "dead".

I then used the red pull handle in the boot to manually lower the roof - no problems there, roof is now down.

However, with the roof down, when I try either the roof up or roof down button now, there is a "whiring" sound but nothing actually happens.

I've checked the fuses and they're fine - and the whiring sound makes it seem like the electronics are ok - has the motor slowly died?

(It would be strange if so, as the car hasn't seen rain/water for 6 months as been in storage, and I checked the water holes were clear when I bought it) - any ideas?

I've fully charged the battery (although I think this is slightly degraded) and I've tried the above with the engine both on and off.

Thanks so much for your help!

George
 
Hi Rob,
Thanks for your reply. End of last summer when I purchased it, I took the rubber plugs out the bottom and they were clear of any blockage/debris, and popped them back in. Car has been garaged over winter since then so can't have filled? And the roof mechanism was working perfectly when I tried it out a couple of weeks ago.
Cheers,
George
 
Fair point! Does the symptoms I've described above (even though I can hear "whiring" from the motor?) mean it's likely the motor is dead or is there anything else I can try? Is it worth replacing the battery to see if this might be an issue?
Thanks!
George
 
Could be the battery if its been sat a while,but i would guess the motor is finally giving up the ghost.
There are quite a few on here who will resurect the old motor and relocate it to the boot ,at a very reasonable price depending on your location.
 
If you pour a little water below the rear screen it should escape from the drains behind the cills proving the drains are not blocked, even if it’s running clear the motor can still drown from previous drowning episodes as once it’s pouch has been breached the water cannot escape! :cry:
Rob
 
Thanks both, very much appreciated.

I’m in the Midlands (Bromsgrove), do you kindly know of anyone around here and roughly how much it is for a recondition/relocation?

George
 
Not sure on exact locations of the guys that do it,
If you want it doing start a new thread and giving your loacation and them that are close enough should reply and give you an estimate depends what exactly is the problem .
 
Thanks sw4nny.

Just thinking, this has only happened after I recharged the battery using a CTEK battery charger, connected to the positive terminal under the bonnet - is there any way this could have had an impact?
 
If the battery had lost most of its charge i believe it will never be the same again,the technical reason for this not too sure but its well documented on the forum,so it could still be the lack of strength in the battery .
Earlier you said you tried the roof with engine running,was there any big difference?
You could check battery strength,but if your feelings are that its past its best,then personally i would get a new one,try the motor with engine running and maybe give it a few cycles up and down to get fluid through the system.
If all this fails then i would be looking for a guy who could mend and relocate the motor.
At a rough guess £150 to mend and relocate,not exactly sure what the going rate is at the moment.
 
georgekitchen7 said:
Thanks both, very much appreciated.

I’m in the Midlands (Bromsgrove), do you kindly know of anyone around here and roughly how much it is for a recondition/relocation?

George
Click to expand...
Number 5 is near Bristol
Bowser is near hook
Durham Dave is near Durham
 
Super, thank you both for your replies, really helpful. I’ve ordered a new battery and will see how that goes. If unsuccessful, will contact one of those members.

Sw4nny - please can you just clarify “few cycles up and down to get fluid through the system” - as in, the roof up and down with the hydraulics?
 
Just a thought....have you checked in the boot to ensure that the spacer that increases the space for the roof to retract hasn’t been knocked and dislodged? If there isn’t enough space for the roof to be stored then it will not fully lower.
 
georgekitchen7 said:
Super, thank you both for your replies, really helpful. I’ve ordered a new battery and will see how that goes. If unsuccessful, will contact one of those members.

Sw4nny - please can you just clarify “few cycles up and down to get fluid through the system” - as in, the roof up and down with the hydraulics?
Click to expand...
Yes if the battery is good then it may take a few cycles up and down to get all the hydraulic fluid fully round the system.
All i am doing is thinking out loud of the things i would try if it were mine. :thumbsup:
 
I think it probably was a battery problem initially but it may now be the fact that since pulling the red handle in the boot that the bypass plunger on the pump is stuck in. It’s a very common problem.

Can you easily move the roof by hand once unlatched, even though you have returned the red handle to the default position?
 
Monkeeboy said:
Just a thought....have you checked in the boot to ensure that the spacer that increases the space for the roof to retract hasn’t been knocked and dislodged? If there isn’t enough space for the roof to be stored then it will not fully lower.
Click to expand...

If that was the cause the roof wouldn’t move at all, the op’s still worked but got progressively worse :thumbsup:
Rob
 
ph001 said:
I think it probably was a battery problem initially but it may now be the fact that since pulling the red handle in the boot that the bypass plunger on the pump is stuck in. It’s a very common problem.
Click to expand...

Spot on!
The bowden cable pushes in a brass pin - see pic. This pin activates the release valve but due to oxidisation it sticks in even when the cable is returned to its position, so not matter what you do it will never build up hydraulic pressure. A bit of wd40 and pushing it in and out a number of times frees off the valve. Unfortunately this will involve getting the motor out but it can then be sited into the boot. Not too bad a job if you are a practical type, took me a couple of days as I soaked the motor in diesel overnight, it was in a right state but works perfectly now and so much faster!brass pin.JPG
 
Since you pulled the red manual ring pull in the boot it could be that the valve it operates is stuck in the open position, if it is then you will never get enough pressure in the system to get the hood moving when operating the up and down buttons, the motor will sound but will not achieve enough pressure. You do need to pull the motor/pump unit back into the boot to investigate. If the valve is stuck spray some WD40 on it and tap it with a penel hammer to free it off so that it opertes without sticking. Moving it to the boot is the best thing you can do so it becomes easily accessable in case of future issues with it. Having said that having it repositioned will avoid the usual water in the works problem so you shouldn't get problems. If you have a go at moving it yourself the hardest part is getting the nylon tie wraps that hold the plastic container housing the motor in its well to break so it can be lifted out and pulled back into the boot. I used a long lever forced between the housing top cover and its body to lever it up with considerable force to break the ties. Once free it was lifted out and pulled back into the boot. Mine had already been changed at some time in its life and was dry, just moved it as a precaution. Good guide with pictures here https://zroadster.org/threads/z4-roof-motor-relocation-to-boot.19256/
 
I re-read the original poster description of his issues a few times and believe his car's issue is a different problem. In that, he attempted to drop the top and it stopped halfway. He then raised the top and it latched closed. He again attempted to drop the top and it again stopped halfway. He again raised the top and it latched. Finally, he attempted top down and it un-latched and it stopped. The aforementioned clearly indicates a problem which was before he used the red handle top by-pass. However, the other posters are totally correct that a jammed emergency by-pass could cause this problem. The only problem is that the issues existed before he touched the by-pass handle.

Given the original posters description, I believe that either a rubber seal on one of his hinge lifters has failed or one of his hydo lines has failed. His description of the problem would be consistent with a sealed system losing fluid until it lack enough for any movement. You also have to remember that although the top isn't moving, he can hear the top pump/motor running.

I believe there are a number of folks in the UK, who for a very reasonable fee will relocate the motor to the trunk. These same folks many, during this process be able to determine if you have a blown hydo line and may be able to change it from the trunk. However, if it's a rubber seal within the hinge lifter it will require that the top be removed to make that repair.
 
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