"Stock tyres" originally Continental?

[alexman]

I bought my Z4M second owner and it has stock wheels with "Continental Sport Contact M3" tyres all round. Are these the same tyres supplied as stock with most Z4M's? Although it could just be marketing BS, I'm guessing these are good tyres from the fact they seem to be designed for the M3/Z4M?

If I search on etyres.co.uk for a 255/40/18 tyre, this comes up about fifth down price wise £190. Has anyone tried any of the others on this list?

As it can be months that you own specific tyres and even if you then replace them with a complete set, how can you really tell the difference if you're replacing worn (or even slightly worn) tyres that you're used to for new replacements?

 

[mmm-five]

I like the Michelin PS2s and had them at various times on my old e34 M5.

I don't like the fact that you've either got to get Porsche or Mercedes fitment (or go for 'extra load' 99 versions which make the sidewalls even stiffer than the standard 95 rating - my M5 at 1700kg only had 93 rated tyres) if you want the correct size for the Z4M.

Personally, I've had no problem with the standard SportContact M3 (which some say are an ancient tyre because they're based on the old SportContact 1 which is true, but only the pattern is the same not the compound), and I can get them for a good £50/corner less than the PS2s.

I've never like directional tyres so I'm not going to bother with the Falkens and Vredesteins that people recommend on here which are even cheaper.

On the list you mention, I'd forget the Bridgestone ER33 as it's a general purpose tyre for saloons, so won't be up to much in the performance stakes - although it might last 20,000 miles. The Bridgestone RE050EZ is a run-flat so forget that. The Dunlop Sport Maxx is not bad as is the standard RE050.

The Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta in the same size will be about £20 cheaper, and the Falken is not available in that size for the rear.

 

[mikedav]

Protyre or blackcircles.co.uk seems to be cheaper for the Contis. Just had my rears done at Protyre, think they were £170ish each fitted.

The Falken 452s are good but as said, not available in our size.

Heard good things about the Vredestein but couldn't get them quickly in my case

PS2s are highly rated but just too expensive IMO, £200-£270 each depending on who you go to IIRC

 

[car62]

I bought my Z4M second owner and it has stock wheels with "Continental Sport Contact M3" tyres all round. Are these the same tyres supplied as stock with most Z4M's? Although it could just be marketing BS, I'm guessing these are good tyres from the fact they seem to be designed for the M3/Z4M?

All Z4Ms came with those tires. They were left overs from E46 M3 production. They are definitely not good tires. The sooner you get rid of them, the better. Many models of Bridgestone, Dunlop, Michelin, Pirelli, and even the latest Continentals are much better.

 

[flimper]

Can you mix and match? I only need to replace the rears, can you have the originals on the front and the newer Conti 3 on the back?

 

[mmm-five]

All Z4Ms came with those tires. They were left overs from E46 M3 production. They are definitely not good tires. The sooner you get rid of them, the better. Many models of Bridgestone, Dunlop, Michelin, Pirelli, and even the latest Continentals are much better.

See i told you some people don't like them. They'll probably start telling you standard wheels are crap too and you need some CSLs.

 

[car62]

Can you mix and match? I only need to replace the rears, can you have the originals on the front and the newer Conti 3 on the back?

Usually this is not recommended but in this case you could probably get away with it with nothing terrible happening.

 

[mmm-five]

Can you mix and match? I only need to replace the rears, can you have the originals on the front and the newer Conti 3 on the back?

Usually this is not recommended but in this case you could probably get away with it with nothing terrible happening.

Nothing wrong with having one type on the front and another on the rear as long as they're from the same performance category - i.e. don't have a trackday tyre on the front and a studded ice tyre on the rear.

The mixing tyres warning usually only refers to tyres on the same axle - although even then it's more about keeping tread patterns & performance similar - i.e. directional on one side and non-directional on the other as they will clear water at much different rates and could therefore affect the balance when pushing on.

In reality, if you just do town driving, you could have 4 different tyres on 4 corners and not notice any difference - otherwise you'd not get an MOT with mixed tyres (the only MOT failure for mixed tyres is when you mix radial & cross-ply).

 

[pvr]

Agreed, there are difference front / back anyway as the front could have 6 mm left, rear 2 mm and therefore having different characteristics anyway (especially in the wet).

 

[alexman]

Finally managed to get a new tyre for £190 from etyres. However, tread on that one is prob 2-3mm more than on the other wheel but can't be helped until I change them again I guess.

Flat tyre had a bent nail in it and a separate rip on the inner wall..

Driver mentioned the option of getting tyres filled with this gunk that is supposed to keep them inflated if you get a puncture (didn't say what it was but is a blueish coloured gel) - anyone know what this is and is it good or something to avoid?

 

[pvr]

If you fill them, they can never be repaired if you have a flat ...

 

[car62]

Can you mix and match? I only need to replace the rears, can you have the originals on the front and the newer Conti 3 on the back?

Usually this is not recommended but in this case you could probably get away with it with nothing terrible happening.

Nothing wrong with having one type on the front and another on the rear as long as they're from the same performance category - i.e. don't have a trackday tyre on the front and a studded ice tyre on the rear.

The mixing tyres warning usually only refers to tyres on the same axle - although even then it's more about keeping tread patterns & performance similar - i.e. directional on one side and non-directional on the other as they will clear water at much different rates and could therefore affect the balance when pushing on.

In reality, if you just do town driving, you could have 4 different tyres on 4 corners and not notice any difference - otherwise you'd not get an MOT with mixed tyres (the only MOT failure for mixed tyres is when you mix radial & cross-ply).

Have to disagree. I don't think TUV would approve different brands on the front and rear axles. Small differences in tires can make a surprisingly big difference in handling, especially in emergency situations or at high speeds. You only have four llittle patches of rubber holding your car to the road. In a car like the Z4M, which has fairly neutral handling, short wheelbase, and rotates easily, placing good high grip tires on the front and poor or worn out tires on the back would be asking for trouble. The car would be unstable.

 

[mmm-five]

Have to disagree. I don't think TUV would approve different brands on the front and rear axles. Small differences in tires can make a surprisingly big difference in handling, especially in emergency situations or at high speeds. You only have four llittle patches of rubber holding your car to the road. In a car like the Z4M, which has fairly neutral handling, short wheelbase, and rotates easily, placing good high grip tires on the front and poor or worn out tires on the back would be asking for trouble. The car would be unstable.

My fronts last 20,000 miles and the rears last half that (or less if I've done some trackdays) - so from your statement I assume you replace all 4 tyres when your rears need replacing or you get a puncture and the fronts still have 4mm :thumbsdown:

On that assumption we'd all better change our staggered set-ups for the same size all round - and we'd better make sure that all the tyres are the same pressure and have the exact same amount of wear on them - otherwise we will DIE!

I'm not condoning putting ditchfinders on one axle and PS2s on the other, but putting something like Vredesteins/Toyos on the back and Falkens/Kumhos on the front - assuming they are all of the same high/max performance summer tyre, load & speed rating - will not alter the characteristics enough to make them any more dangerous than having slightly different pressures or tread depths.

The axle-matching is required due to the balance required across an axle - this balance is not required front to back - otherwise you have make every car with a perfect 50:50 weight distribution and stop the car lurching under braking or acceleration as that affects the balance much more than any tyre difference will.

Also you do know Pirelli makes specific different tyres for the front and rear of some high performance cars. The front will have a directional tread for better cornering and water dissapation, wheras the rear has an asymmetric block pattern to improve grip in a straight line. If the difference between front & back tyres was that important they'd never have got certification to sell the system in Europe.

BTW, the UK doesn't have TUV, but we do have the MOT (UK annual roadworthiness test). It's the MOT regulations I was referencing when I stated that the only failure will be if you have different constructions of tyre on the car.

I've even had a similar argument with a tyre fitter who maintained it was illegal for him to fit different tyres to different axles, and as I had a blow-out on one, I'd have to change all of them as he didn't have a matching tyre in stock. He could not, and no-one has to this date supplied me with any evidence to back this up, and I have never been back to any garage that says this as they're purely trying to con people.

Ultimately it's down to personal choice. If you feel comfortable replacing 4 tyres every time you need 1 then nobody is stopping you. If you feel that £40/corner tyres suit your driving style (and they're roadworthy/legal/suitable) then go for it. If you feel that you need £300/corner P-Zero Corsa or Pilot Sport Cups then go for them as well (I prefer to keep them for the track myself).

 

[car62]

Next time you go to the track put some new track tires on the front axle and some worn used ones with multiple heat cycles on them on the rear axle. Then go out and drive at the limit. You will probably be a little more in agreement with me afterward.

 

[mmm-five]

Next time you go to the track put some new track tires on the front axle and some worn used ones with multiple heat cycles on them on the rear axle. Then go out and drive at the limit. You will probably be a little more in agreement with me afterward.

Of course I agree with this statement as all it says is (paraphrasing of course) "the same (but more worn) tyres on different axles makes the handling worse".

I'm not saying the differences won't make the handling change, all I'm saying is the difference between running a tyre on the rear with 2mm to a front with 7mm on will be as great as running a PS2 on the front and a SportContact on the rear, and therefore there's no need to match the tyres exactly.

I'm sure you'd find that most track users actually wear tyres on one side of their car more than the other and then swap them over later in the day. If what you are saying were true then they'd have to throw out the offside tyres and fit two new ones every couple of laps.

I've gone through over 100 track tyres over they years and know what difference they can make, and know that unless I'm driving at 9.5 to 10 tenths it doesn't make that much difference whether I have P-Zero Corsa on the front and Pilot Cups on the rear or tarmac rally tyres all round (i.e. Silverstone S585/S575 is what I used to use).

However on the public road, you'll rarely be at anything over 8/10ths, so that 1% difference won't matter one iota - whether in an emergency situation or not - and even then the differing condition of the road under each of those tiny contact patches is likely to be as big a factor.

 

[Z4Kevo]

Interesting about the Continental M3 tires...last summer I ran a set of PS2s at the track and ground the front down in short order...still had plenty of tread on the rear...so, I went ahead and mounted a fresh set of Continental M3s on the front and oddly enough I ran just as well as it did when I had PS2s all around...Go figure.

 

[Darren M]

Interesting about the Continental M3 tires...last summer I ran a set of PS2s at the track and ground the front down in short order...still had plenty of tread on the rear...so, I went ahead and mounted a fresh set of Continental M3s on the front and oddly enough I ran just as well as it did when I had PS2s all around...Go figure.

I don't think the Conti's are as bad as people say either.Although an old tyre now, it is however a tyre specifically designed for the balance of the M3 which must be a real positive (better than many modern generic tyres). I would imagine the characteristics of the Z4 M are similar hence why they were used and I'm sure the M was thoroughly tested on them, I don't think BMW fitted them as they had M3 leftovers on the shelf . I've also heard they perform well once warmed up and should work well on trackdays.

 

[aerobod]

Interesting about the Continental M3 tires...last summer I ran a set of PS2s at the track and ground the front down in short order...still had plenty of tread on the rear...so, I went ahead and mounted a fresh set of Continental M3s on the front and oddly enough I ran just as well as it did when I had PS2s all around...Go figure.

I don't think the Conti's are as bad as people say either.Although an old tyre now, it is however a tyre specifically designed for the balance of the M3 which must be a real positive (better than many modern generic tyres). I would imagine the characteristics of the Z4 M are similar hence why they were used and I'm sure the M was thoroughly tested on them, I don't think BMW fitted them as they had M3 leftovers on the shelf . I've also heard they perform well once warmed up and should work well on trackdays.

I agree. The first time at the track with the Conti M3's, I ran them at 38PSI cold and found them very greasy feeling. Dropped the pressure to 32PSI cold and they were transformed (they were at 38PSI a couple of minutes after finishing a session with a cool down lap). They scuffed to the triangle markers on the sidewall at the edge of the tread at 32 PSI cold. Seems like they perform much better with a lower pressure than one would expect.

 

[mikedav]

I don't think BMW fitted them as they had M3 leftovers on the shelf .

Absolutely. Z4M production was 3 years alongside E46 M3 production for about half of that. So that's at least 3000 sets for the Zs, plus the E46 requirement. BMW did not just have 20,000-40,000 tyres lying around 'we may as well use up' Its Just in Time production, like any other car...so they must rate it and/or had a good deal with Continental.

 

[Andy]

There was a deal, I remember reading it at launch, as someone like Evo got hold of a car with different tyres and said it made it far better, but gave the reason all cars were shod with Contis.