Standalone EMS/EFI systems? Thoughts/experiences?

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Bad_Pritt

Senior member
Hi guys,

I recently learned that there are much more remapping possibilities than I thought. Systems such as "Megasquirt" seem to be well-known for standalone engine management systems or electronic fuel injection tuning. I actually met a German at a Gas station that started talking to me about my wide tyres. He was surprised I had such wide tyres for a car with "only" 185bhp and suggested I should get a decent remap/chiptune. So I explained him that I already got one for 15bhp (coming from 170bhp) for 500 euro. He had a good laugh and told me you can tune a Z4 E85 2.2i up to 225bhp or even 265bhp with a separate ECU for the same money (in Germany). Talking about it with a friend who is also a mechanic in his spare time, he told me about "megasquirt" systems and the fact that tuning with these "piggyback chips" is quite difficult unless you already have all the maps for the car...

Anyway, getting these results from a chiptune is obviously very very very appealing. But I'm very sceptical as Inever heard of it, though I did quite some research. I would consider this if it is legit AND if anyone has any good experiences with it? Don't really care about increased consumption as it is a weekend car anyway.

PS: Oh and don't start about compressors, superchargers and turbo's as these are simply not allowed in Belgium! (MOT fail) :wink:
 
personally unless your knowledgeable i would avoid the megasquirt. it has come on SO much in the last few years and is a great product but can have a little bit of an issue. it basically started life as a home brew ECU you put together yourself.

i would look to the likes of DTP, Omex, and Emerald.

i would be very surprised at those claims without other stuff being added into the mix although i would be really interested in the outcome if you did. i get about 180bhp out of a ford zetec engine using an omex ecu but then it has got independent throttle bodies and a decent flow exhaust on it.
 
That's exactly my point. I find it very hard to believe I could get these kind of gains out of a 2.2i with a piggyback ECU and not adding anything else such as a supercharger etc. On the other hand, I know an MX-5 expert that has seen some MX-5 engines with the megasquirt systems and confirmed that you can get serious gains, provided you have all the right maps OR do a tune on a dyno at different speeds and temperature, and tune it every 50 rpm to have small intervals.

It sounds too good to be true, but I know the guy very well and he really knows his stuff. The German that approaached me at the Gas station, obviously don't know him, hence the scepticisism :D
 
Hi,

I'm not sure that any of the standalone ECU's will be capable of actuating the Vanos, let alone communicate with the rest of the car via the K/Can Bus - But saying that I had an Alpha system on a lightly modified 2.0 Zetec engine in my Severn (Cams, flowed and throttle bodies) that was dyno'd at 255BHP @ 7250, that 100+ more than stock and still road driveable, so they absolutley work, but I dont know if theres a ECU out there that works with the rest of the Zeds systems.

Stu.
 
Have an Emerald fitted on my E36 328, plan is to charge it at some point in the near future. :thumbsup:

However the most they could get from my engine without FI was 223bhp and that's with a larger intake manifold, big bore throttle body and 36lb injectors. It has also been decatted. Stock these push around 190bhp so its a decent gain. With cams and an M3 manifold this could probably see around 250 maybe 260 at a push...

It doesn't seem totally unreasonable that you could see somewhere north of 200bhp with a decent live rolling road map and a few other tweaks/modifications to the car, but i think you would be hard pushed to see anything near 265bhp.
 
Very interested in this as i will be going down the stand alone ecu route if i do decide to turbo my car. The vanos thing is a worry as i dont know a lot about it or the ecu set ups. I do know enough that there could be trouble with it. I am meeting a guy in the next few weeks who knows a lot about standalone ecus and he dose a lot of mapping highly tuned non standard cars in the Jap seen. I am hopping he knows a lot about the BMW options to or knows someone who dose. I will report back if i find out anything interesting.
 
Machine monkey said:
Very interested in this as i will be going down the stand alone ecu route if i do decide to turbo my car. The vanos thing is a worry as i dont know a lot about it or the ecu set ups. I do know enough that there could be trouble with it. I am meeting a guy in the next few weeks who knows a lot about standalone ecus and he dose a lot of mapping highly tuned non standard cars in the Jap seen. I am hopping he knows a lot about the BMW options to or knows someone who dose. I will report back if i find out anything interesting.
Click to expand...

Speak to Greg at Protuner. He does all the Dynotorque and Driftworks cars. He is very highly regarded and i would most definitely trust him 100%. He also did the tune on mine :thumbsup:

http://www.protuner.co.uk/
 
Lol what do you want to tune with NA?
The only parameters worth adjusting are injector duty cycle and spark advance.
That is perfectly possible with the ms45. And you might gain an extra 15HP or so with excessive wear on rodbearings etc as the only parameter worth tempering with (performance wise, besides the revlimiter) is the timing advance. Maybe study some inner workings of the combustion engine before giving the engine more advance spark :wink:

the displayed hp figures with 'ems tuning' are 'somewhat' unbelievable.
The power is made in the engine, so if you dont want FI, think about: cams 1000eur, +20hp, porting head with larger valves 1500eur +25hp, headers/exhaust/racecats 1000eur+ 15 hp, lightweight pistons/crank/flywheel/rods/front damper 8000 EUR +70hp.
Thats how you tune and then you need a highly customiseable ecu.
 
GuidoK, that's what I thought. If this would be legiy, I would have done the mod ages ago :-)
Having said that, I would be more than happy with 225bhp with little mods.
 
Machine monkey said:
Very interested in this as i will be going down the stand alone ecu route if i do decide to turbo my car. The vanos thing is a worry as i dont know a lot about it or the ecu set ups. I do know enough that there could be trouble with it. I am meeting a guy in the next few weeks who knows a lot about standalone ecus and he dose a lot of mapping highly tuned non standard cars in the Jap seen. I am hopping he knows a lot about the BMW options to or knows someone who dose. I will report back if i find out anything interesting.
Click to expand...

Something like the Syvecs S6GP would probably do the job, they already have a plug and play setup for the E46 M3.

Might be worth speaking to Jez at Horsham Developments as they're fairly local (Chieveley).

http://www.h-dev.co.uk/index2.php?page=syvecs_mapping
 
My last projects before the Z4 I have used piggybacks and standalone

1. Omex (very good but expensive and not very friendly software At the time I was using it)
2. Aquamist MF2 (very basic but does the job of controlling additional injectors)
3. Greedy emanage blue capable but limited in terms of injector size etc
4. Megasquirt MS2 excellent tool massively capable software is easy to use (auto tune is pure witchcraft) there is loads of support out there too

What you will find is people recommend what they have used and tuners favour the ones they have experience with so it is difficult getting and impartial view.

My recommendation is read, read and weigh up the pros and cons of each. Personally I wouldn't think twice about using Megasquirt again but the guy that built it for me was legend and I wouldn't have been able to do it without him
 
allanhelen said:
My last projects before the Z4 I have used piggybacks and standalone

1. Omex (very good but expensive and not very friendly software At the time I was using it)
2. Aquamist MF2 (very basic but does the job of controlling additional injectors)
3. Greedy emanage blue capable but limited in terms of injector size etc
4. Megasquirt MS2 excellent tool massively capable software is easy to use (auto tune is pure witchcraft) there is loads of support out there too

What you will find is people recommend what they have used and tuners favour the ones they have experience with so it is difficult getting and impartial view.

My recommendation is read, read and weigh up the pros and cons of each. Personally I wouldn't think twice about using Megasquirt again but the guy that built it for me was legend and I wouldn't have been able to do it without him
Click to expand...

That is interesting. What sort of cars did you use it for and what kind of gains did you actually get?
 
Also forgot I've also used a power card piggyback too

2 NA projects a Honda VTEC engined kit and 3.2 V6 blueprinted V6 engine swap into a car that should never have seen that engine (a Vauxhall Cavalier)

2 FI projects a turbo with 130bhp from a 1.1 FIAT engine in a cinquecento (from 54bhp as std) and a supercharged MX5 with 208 BHP up from 140

As for gains it is a difficult one as the cars would either have not have run or the engines would have lasted minutes without them so it's not that easy.
 
You do realize that you probably lose esp & tc with an aftermarket ecu?
Most implementations look like horrorstories.
remember that a z4 is massively more complicated (electronically) than for example an e36.
Most succesful implementations on post e46 cars are done with expensive ecu's.
ecu price is like 2500eur, and custom retune is like 1000eur.
3500eur is a lot for -maybe- max 20hp extra. (So 190 hp in tota, although i doubt you'll gain 20hp on 170hp).

best way to gain some power is putting in a m54b30.
That engine looks 100% the same so nobody will notice and can be bought for 1500eur in good condition.
then youll have guaranteed 231hp, no tuning quirks etc
try to get an engine incl gearbox&propshaft (e85)
 
i thought the abs and co. were run from a separate ecu,

best bet would be to go and speak to your local tuning shop (or the one you want to use) to see what they specialise in.
it would be interesting to see if independent throttle bodies made any difference, probably a costly route to gain not huge amounts.
 
You can consider a piggyback these will leave all the functionality of the standard but can take control of fuel, timing etc
 
allanhelen said:
You can consider a piggyback these will leave all the functionality of the standard but can take control of fuel, timing etc
Click to expand...

Yes but do you think fuel and timing on a stock engine with stock valve train will provide a circa 30% increase in output? I know it's possible to improve flow in the M54 head but what are the harmonics like of the M54B22?

You're probably better off with -

1. ESS for a TS kit if you want a reversible solution
2. M54B30 if you want stock like delivery but relatively irreversible.

Or go the whole hog and M54B30 with a TS kit and standalone management with a low compression build as the engine will be out anyway :evil:
 
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