Staggered vs Squared - looking for some input

[parabolica]

Bought my Z last year with MV2 alloys on it; given it had different sized tyres front and back I assumed they were a genuine staggered set. They came off the car at Christmas to be refurbished (with the intent to sell them as a set of 107s were going on instead) and low and behold, they are replicas, 8j all round.

I've had the 107s on for a few months now, and whilst I love them I am toying with the idea of going back to the replica MV2s purely based on looks; only this time I'd look to have the proper size tyres on all of them, so a square set up.

Is there a noticeable difference between having a staggered and square set up? I imagine the 255 rears give more grip vs a 225. I never had issue with the wheels/tyres when I was (unknowingly) running a 255 tyre on a 8j wheel - is there any real risk running a such a wide tyre on those wheels? Most of my driving is city + motorway; only rarely do I get to give it the beans some where secluded.

 

[philbo909]

I have 225 all round and it's plenty of grip
The M3/z4m have 255 rears and 320hp, the lower engine sizes really are over rubbered imo

 

[Jl-c]

I don't know which Z you have but my 3.0si on a square set of tyres (winter set) 225's breaks traction all the time on the rear when accelerating.

 

[parabolica]

It's a 3.0 SE SMG. I'd imagine the winters don't offer all that much grip unless you're driving in really low temps!

 

[Jl-c]

It's a 3.0 SE SMG. I'd imagine the winters don't offer all that much grip unless you're driving in really low temps!

supposed to be 10 degrees and below which it seems to be oscillating around at the moment, but, yes, not hugely grippy!

 

[Piper1]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the M besides staggered tires, wheels are also wider in back to support wider tire. My stock turbines were 17x8 with 225 square, my apex ec7 are 18x9 with 255 squared. If you plan to or already lowered you car you'll have to be careful and may have to go with adjustable camber plates on the front for clearance and also I do rub slightly in front at or close to full lock.

 

[philbo909]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the M besides staggered tires, wheels are also wider in back to support wider tire. My stock turbines were 17x8 with 225 square, my apex ec7 are 18x9 with 255 squared. If you plan to or already lowered you car you'll have to be careful and may have to go with adjustable camber plates on the front for clearance and also I do rub slightly in front at or close to full lock.

I don't think the OP meant 255 all round, I'm actually surprised you managed to fit a 255 on the front without rubbing?

 

[parabolica]

Yeah I meant going potentially 225 all round rather than 225 F and 255 R. No plans to modify the car; it's stock on m sport springs; prefer to keep it that way.

 

[brillomaster]

i've got a 3.0i with MV1s on, so 8" front, 8.5" rear. normally i run closer to a square setup - 245/255, and the car is nicely balanced, neutral on turn in, equal grip front and rear.

for a change i tried my road wheels on a recent trackday - a set of 107s with 225 front and 255 rear. the difference was dramatic - a lot more understeer, car just would not grip at the front at all. turn in was ok, but start feeding in power and the front just washed wide. every turn was understeer until you back out the throttle. even in the wet the front washed wide way before the rear stepped out.

so for road driving, 225/255 is definitely safer, but for neutral balance, i'd go square. 225 front and rear would give a lovely balance and a good drive. or if you want a bit more cornering grip perhaps try 245/35/18 all round.

 

[parabolica]

Thanks Brillo; great info.

 

[Mister T]

i've got a 3.0i with MV1s on, so 8" front, 8.5" rear. normally i run closer to a square setup - 245/255, and the car is nicely balanced, neutral on turn in, equal grip front and rear.

for a change i tried my road wheels on a recent trackday - a set of 107s with 225 front and 255 rear. the difference was dramatic - a lot more understeer, car just would not grip at the front at all. turn in was ok, but start feeding in power and the front just washed wide. every turn was understeer until you back out the throttle. even in the wet the front washed wide way before the rear stepped out.

so for road driving, 225/255 is definitely safer, but for neutral balance, i'd go square. 225 front and rear would give a lovely balance and a good drive. or if you want a bit more cornering grip perhaps try 245/35/18 all round.

Same tyres on both sets of wheels?

245 seems very wide for an 8j wheel, that's usually the choice for 8.5 or 9j

 

[Piper1]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the M besides staggered tires, wheels are also wider in back to support wider tire. My stock turbines were 17x8 with 225 square, my apex ec7 are 18x9 with 255 squared. If you plan to or already lowered you car you'll have to be careful and may have to go with adjustable camber plates on the front for clearance and also I do rub slightly in front at or close to full lock.

I don't think the OP meant 255 all round, I'm actually surprised you managed to fit a 255 on the front without rubbing?

I do rub at close to full lock turn of the wheels slightly on the inner fender liner but also have an aggressive stance with added negative camber from camber plates.

I can also vouch for more planted with 255 square in hard cornering with the right suspension set up eliminating some understeer vs 225 width.

OP if you're not going to modify your suspension from stock and wanted wider could go 235 or 245 pending your wheel width, what's the width of your wheels btw?
I ran 235/40 17 falken azenis 615k on my turbines 8" width wheel square but also added 15mm spacers front 25mm spacers rear with the turbines. No spacers now on the apex ec7 18x9 with 255/35 18 Toyo r1r for tires.

Are you planning on light track or auto cross with wanting wider, or other goal? Each manufacture of tires should have a min max tire width to wheel width on their web site. You can run in to problems running too wide of a tire for a rim width, the side walls notably in the extreme off size bubble outwards or adversely you get the stretched look when under sizing the tire to wheel width. Most tire shops around here don't stretch at all but they too can tell you when picking up new shoes what they'd recommend the widest size tire to wheel you want to put it on.

Another thing to keep in mind is availability, selection and price on the tires you plan on. Double check all the sizes you're looking at, one may or may not be more then you'd want to spend.

 

[tee.gilding]

Are you planning on selling the 107's? I could be interested for the right price.

 

[MACK]

OP are you sure the wheels are rep's and not a genuine set. I'm pretty sure 2.0 zeds and E46 saloons came with 8 inch MV2 alround with 225 tyres. The 255 you have already must look very bulbous/mushroom shaped on such a narrow wheel. I know my Goodyear f1 255 rears look like that on 8.5 107s so I'd imagine on an 8 that would be even worse. That said I am running 40 profile instead of the standard 35 so no doubt that's amplifying it.
You should be fine running 225 rears. As has already been said our cars really are a bit over rubbered for their power output. However if you want wider looking rears then 245 is usually the max recommended for 8inch width.

 

[paullyjay]

I have run 225's all round and 225/255's on my 3.0 auto and there is a big difference with rear end traction if I accelerate hard... I suppose it all depends on how you drive...

 

[mr wilks]

4 x 235 40 18 on 4 x 8j would be fine for square set up
You need to look at the offsets stamped on rear to know if they are reps , you could have 4 fronts but genuine ? et47 they would be .
Most rep sets on 8j are et 38/ et 40

 

[R60BBA]

I have 225 all round and it's plenty of grip
The M3/z4m have 255 rears and 320hp, the lower engine sizes really are over rubbered imo

I’ve got 265 on mine :rofl:

Also it’s 338bhp*

 

[Steve84N]

I tooled around for a few months this winter on a square setup consisting of 8J all round with 225/40/18 winter tyres on my C63. Normally I run 245/265 on summer tyres.

It handled quite nicely but traction was hilarious with over 500bhp. :lol:

In the various BMWs I've had I've always increased front tyre size and decreased the rear to reduce the stagger from 3cm to just 1 or 2cm and it reduces understeer as mentioned.

 

[hopz121]

I run 245 F & 265 R on my M3 and the car feels amazing.

Does tramline ever so slightly more than OEM but the front end grip and balance makes it worth while 200%

 

[parabolica]

4 x 235 40 18 on 4 x 8j would be fine for square set up
You need to look at the offsets stamped on rear to know if they are reps , you could have 4 fronts but genuine ? et47 they would be .
Most rep sets on 8j are et 38/ et 40

Hmm... they are all ET 47! I thought all 18" OEM sets on the Z4 came in a staggered setup for some reason.

Are you planning on selling the 107's? I could be interested for the right price.

I might be, but I don't think this is something I'll decide on soon; I do still love the 107 design.