Sound deadening and door speaker install

Inside of the door card looks easy enough. But access to the outer door skin doesn't look great. How much of the door skin did you manage to cover, and how many times did you take a slice out of your hand?

In your writeup did I read correct that you put 4mm with 2mm on top (making 6mm) on the inside of the door skin, yet you'd recommend only using 2mm next time. I will be doing this soon, I just don't know whether to get just 2mm or some extra 4mm for the door skin!? Anyone got any advice? :cry:

Cheers

Dan
 
The 2mm works fine, as I guess its easier to manipulate and get into the tight areas. You can double it up too.

I only peeled back the top half of the membrane but that gives enough access to do the majority of the inner door skin.
 
Danderton said:
Inside of the door card looks easy enough. But access to the outer door skin doesn't look great. How much of the door skin did you manage to cover, and how many times did you take a slice out of your hand?

In your writeup did I read correct that you put 4mm with 2mm on top (making 6mm) on the inside of the door skin, yet you'd recommend only using 2mm next time. I will be doing this soon, I just don't know whether to get just 2mm or some extra 4mm for the door skin!? Anyone got any advice? :cry:

Cheers

Dan
Click to expand...
Yes I got some 4mm and some 2mm because i wasn't sure what I'd need - the volume pack of 2mm is plenty to do 2 layers on the inner door skins. Access is a little cramped but there's enough room that you can get a roller into most places. You can also cut the SilentCost to fit odd-shaped pieces where necessary and just press it firmly all over with your hand/fingers - and I didn't lose much skin :wink:
 
I realise this is a slightly old post but I just wanted to add some general comments/ queries:

1. By splicing in another speaker of presumably 2 or 4 ohms impedance, you will be adding to the impedance the amp sees. Presumably, since people use this setup it's safe to do this, but it's generally not a good idea to just add additional speakers to an amp.

2. I see in the photo for the sound deadening, that sound deadening has been added to the hard plastic door card. Most in-car sound deadening is just a dense material designed to stop resonance (ringing) in metal panels and will do very little on plastic panels, save for adding a little mass. To get the most from sound deadening you should add it to the outside and inside metal panels liberally. If you want to stop vibration/rattling, try foam.

Just my 2p, otherwise a great write up :)
 
On point 1 it was tested and suggested to me as a simple and safe solution. It's been running fine in my Zed for 5 years so guess it is ok.

Agee totally on point 2. Putting Matt on door cards is pointless.
 
Evil_elvis said:
2. I see in the photo for the sound deadening, that sound deadening has been added to the hard plastic door card. Most in-car sound deadening is just a dense material designed to stop resonance (ringing) in metal panels and will do very little on plastic panels, save for adding a little mass. To get the most from sound deadening you should add it to the outside and inside metal panels liberally. If you want to stop vibration/rattling, try foam.
Click to expand...

Adding mass changes the natural frequency of vibration - the BSW people suggest adding spare deadening to doorcards to stop unwanted resonance and, as they're the specialists, I went with their advice.
 
Evil_elvis said:
I realise this is a slightly old post but I just wanted to add some general comments/ queries:

1. By splicing in another speaker of presumably 2 or 4 ohms impedance, you will be adding to the impedance the amp sees. Presumably, since people use this setup it's safe to do this, but it's generally not a good idea to just add additional speakers to an amp.
Click to expand...

It looks to me that the speakers have been wire in parallel in which case the impedance will decrease. 1/Zt =1/Z1 + 1/Z2...... etc or Zt= Z1 x Z2/Z1 + Z2 in the case of 2 speakers. If both speakers are 4 Ohms then the result would be 2 Ohms
I don't know whether the amp can cope with the extra load or not at very high volume settings but many people have done this and it doesn't seem to bother the amp.

If they have been wired in series then the impedance will be the sum of the impedances and the power across the speakers will be less than originally.
 
PerryGunn said:
Evil_elvis said:
2. I see in the photo for the sound deadening, that sound deadening has been added to the hard plastic door card. Most in-car sound deadening is just a dense material designed to stop resonance (ringing) in metal panels and will do very little on plastic panels, save for adding a little mass. To get the most from sound deadening you should add it to the outside and inside metal panels liberally. If you want to stop vibration/rattling, try foam.
Click to expand...

Adding mass changes the natural frequency of vibration - the BSW people suggest adding spare deadening to doorcards to stop unwanted resonance and, as they're the specialists, I went with their advice.
Click to expand...

Well it certainly can't hurt to add it!
 
Really nice write-up. Asking for base 6-speaker setup; Would it be possible to use the same tweeter channel for a set of subwoofers behind the seats? You said tweeters get full range signal. So I figure I go with door speakers like you (2-way - bass + tweeter) or go just 1-way behind the seats?
Would it be overkill for the amp to go the way you did and also add 1-way speaker behind the seats?
 
So I did the same mod as PerryGunn. Took the cable before tweeter connection and soldered a new pair.

My subjective opinion/conclusions are:
- it sounds louder for sure... :)
- ... after turning volume up a bit noisy. I dunno how to describe it; missing a distinct, clear sound. I guess this would be from the tweeters of Hertz speakers
- two pairs of tweeters hence a lot more high frequencies. I turned treble to zero. And still sometimes I get too much.
- Hertz are good powerful speakers and OEM ones are competing
- sound shifted slightly towards the front of the car

My suggestion would be to get a pair of 1 system MID speakers for the doors. Like BMW intended with 10-speaker setup. Or at least lose one pair of tweeters - OEM or aftermarket ones. I'll try to disconnect OEM ones and see how it goes. All these sound from tweeters is producing too much noise :)
I'm missing good bass to compete with this setup. Probably a woofer would be in order.

Overall I would say this. If you wish some more hump from the speakers - replace them ALL! Go with 6-speaker setup but good speakers. The question remains - how would OEM HU cope with atfermarket speakers. Again you have a challenge with OEM bass/woofer speakers 'cause they are 2 OHM speakers (foot well, behind the seats). But for good quality music you'll have to go with AMP setup. But don't forget - you have a roadster where 1.) good music is difficult to achieve 2.) with engine like Zed's is not meant for listening to the radio :D
 
Interesting comment about the high frequencies, I found it a bit brighter but nothing a fiddle with the tone controls couldn't correct - but I'm at the age where my hearing starts to lose the top end so I'm probably not hearing everything from the tweeters anyway
 
I used Perry's excellent guide to fit speakers last autumn. I'm now going back to it this easter to fit the sound deadening and also wire a capacitor inline with the speakers.

I'm adding a 300uF capacitor to block out the bass notes, as I've found the speaker doesnt sound good on loud volume full signal (using an aftermarket HU). I will let you all know if it makes a difference!

Also going to look at running a wire from my newly install footwell components up to the tweeter - but that looks like a fiddly operation! If it proves to much hassle I will continue to run the tweeter of the HU.
 
bony_13 said:
I'm adding a 300uF capacitor to block out the bass notes, as I've found the speaker doesnt sound good on loud volume full signal (using an aftermarket HU). I will let you all know if it makes a difference!
Click to expand...
I am getting the same and I'm also thinking of doing the same. Issue I have is calculation of the correct capacitor. Usually is trial and error.
I was surprised when I saw MID speaker wires in the door (I have Jan 2004). The loom is there, but sadly not connected to anything. But at least I know I have the loom to all of 10 speaker positions. Loom probably starts in the back where you get the amp for 10 speaker setup.
What kind of a footwell components do you have?
 
RenoRaines said:
bony_13 said:
I'm adding a 300uF capacitor to block out the bass notes, as I've found the speaker doesnt sound good on loud volume full signal (using an aftermarket HU). I will let you all know if it makes a difference!
Click to expand...
I am getting the same and I'm also thinking of doing the same. Issue I have is calculation of the correct capacitor. Usually is trial and error.
I was surprised when I saw MID speaker wires in the door (I have Jan 2004). The loom is there, but sadly not connected to anything. But at least I know I have the loom to all of 10 speaker positions. Loom probably starts in the back where you get the amp for 10 speaker setup.
What kind of a footwell components do you have?
Click to expand...
Well I have a pack of various capacitors to try, so will let you know which one works best.

I got some JL Audio C2's (6.5"). I have only put the passenger footwell mid in at the moment, but it sounds fantastic. Powered by 100W RMS.
 
Have BMW improved the deadening in the Coupe doors or is it needed to improve these too?
Is it possible to improve the rear wheel arch against the seat also, or is that part covered good by BMW?
 
RenoRaines said:
Are you running 6.5" setup without amp? Are you getting meatier bass?
Click to expand...

Don't wont to go too off topic...but they are powered by a 4x100W RMS amp which runs both 6.5" Vibe components behind the seats and the 6.5" JL C2 components in the footwell. The C2's do give much better base and I'm really happy with them, but never expect them to replace a sub. For my varied music taste (often the radio if with the Mrs) they sound great and will be enough for me.

I recommend anyone to spend that little extra on speakers. I have Infinity 4" speakers in the door and they are streets ahead of the vibe 6.5" units. Definitely worth spending more if you're going to the trouble of replacing speakers - ideally go to a ICE store where you can pick them up, check the build quality and weight of the magnet (more weight = more bass IMO.) This is why i got my next set of 6.5"s of Ebay and went for a much higher quality speaker (wouldnt spend £200+ new!!).

I will try and do a write up of what I've done. I'm also putting extra sound deadning in the footwell (where your feet rest) and both sides of the bulkhead behind the seats as I go.
 
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