Some mods on a Z4M Roadster
- Thread starter FD3S
- Start date
ph001 said:
Ph001 thanks for your answer. My airbox is on purpose installed this way.
Karbonius Csl airbox is the closest you can find to the OE CSL. The CSL airbox it was introduced first to the M3 CSL and for that reason this box or even the CSL OE is not a perfect fit for our cars. The complete OE CSL airbox has two basic parts: 1) One the main body and 2) a snorkel.
Complete OE CSL Snorkel
INSTALLED
Snorkel alone
The OE CSL snorkel has a "flap" that is programmed to open and closed depending on the revs on a M3 CSL car. In our cars the flap can't work. Karbonius has build a carbon copy of the OE CSL snorkel too. However it didn't make sense to pay around 400-450 euros for the CSL OE or the Karbonius snorkel, when I could make a custom design snorkel for some more money, which it will fit my needs specifically. Unfortunately this needs time and thinking how it can be done correctly.
About the finish of the CSL Airbox you can see the thread that I have started on the zpost, since I could foresee that small issue and that is why I avoided to buy a ready made snorkel:
http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1342648
Please not also that the CSL snorkel OE or copy of it, require cutting some pieces to fit of it, to it can fit in our cars.
The filter is like TOM showed to you and it is the same filter that the OE CSL Airbox uses, to produce the same sound. This filter alone costs around 130 euros.
Subject: Some mods on a Z4M Roadster
RedUn said:There's a further piece you can buy to finish the box off which will move the intake closer to the feed pipe.
Its also got a much more aerodynamic shape to the inlet so I imagine that will help at high rpm, a straight edge like you've got won't be helping.
By the way, I've no idea how much the bell mouth shape will help but without a doubt it will help.
You can buy a genuine one from bmw but you will need to mess with the flap or karbonious sell a full carbon one that's nice 8)
Nice work on the car by the way
RedUN I'm glad that you like my car.
TomK said:
Tom my mechanic has no clue.He just told me that those cars the best airflow they have, the more power they produce. Ok, tell me something new. Even I knew that... I don't blame him though since here we have only 5-8 Z4M's. Mine is the first Z4M here in Greece with CSL Airbox.
After some pressure, he proposed to me to open a hole in the lights and it can suck the air direct from there. That needs also cutting the a small piece of the frame etc. I told him that my car is beautiful and classy and I don't want to cannibalise it with a such a quick fix.
I have discuss this with Randy too and when I proposed the custom snorkel as a solution he told me that " the guys from the dyno were running it to 170 MPH and the run was WAY too long. The heat buildup is WAY too much." I can't understand if it is the dyno fault how a run can be shorter.
FD, mate that box is perfect, no real snorkel required, esp for a dyno, as it's not forced air at that stage anyways. In the real world I don't think.it makes any, if all diff between having a snork or not.
Tom, I think both oem CSL temp probe and the bimmerworld one (Randy recommends) are exactly the same internally. I have my temp probe in exact the same position. I have seen numerous m3's here that have relocated the temp probe to the lip of the snorkel to combat heat soak. Does it work? Dunno, possibly.
Lovely box mate, hope you get the numbers your chasing. Subbed.
Tom, I think both oem CSL temp probe and the bimmerworld one (Randy recommends) are exactly the same internally. I have my temp probe in exact the same position. I have seen numerous m3's here that have relocated the temp probe to the lip of the snorkel to combat heat soak. Does it work? Dunno, possibly.
Lovely box mate, hope you get the numbers your chasing. Subbed.
So they were using 5th gear rather than 4th I guess (like mine peaking at 157mph), I dunno, as I said I'm no tuner... but it's different for some dynos afaik. You'd think the guy with the dyno would know what they are doing and the guy with the map likewise! You can really tell by logging IATs whilst doing the run and see where you are.FD3S said:
It dosen't really matter which is used as long as the tuner is aware, they just have different resistance which affects the scale of the map.Vanne said:
Not sure if FD3S's problem is heatsoak but it is a suggestion worth investigating
I don't think it's numbers he is/should be chasing, it's the shape of the curve that is important here, numbers irrelevant.Vanne said:
You guys have the exact same setup (box/map) right (minus the snorkel)? Did you get yours on the dyno Vanne?
Vanne said:
Vanne thank you for your good words. I appreciate them even more since your car is inspiration for me.
You know that all your posts and your pm was a huge help for me and once again thank you.
I understand from your post that there are two types of CSL temp probes. Does it make sense to change to a bimmerworld one?
Also if the temp probe is used can this cause the problem?
By the way have you managed to dyno your car?
The snorkel is something I would like to build, so I can find a better solution from the existing ones, and if I succeed, to have something to give back to the forum community.
TomK said:
Yes the dyno guy run it on fifth. I have ordered the OBD2 logger so I can log with the torque app. Soon I will have data on that.
TomK said:
I didn't knew that there are two different kind of temp probes so I didn't notify Randy. After I make the logs with Torque and all the other needed things I will notify him, to see if it makes any difference for him.
TomK said:
Totally agree with that.
FD3S like you I couldn't justify £400 for the Karbonius Snorkel so am going with the Geoff Steel Racing FRP one for £150.
I too my Karbonius out of the packaging today, the finish is beautiful but looking inside the airbox there seems to be a small gap where the two parts of the box meet. Wondering if yours is the same?
I too my Karbonius out of the packaging today, the finish is beautiful but looking inside the airbox there seems to be a small gap where the two parts of the box meet. Wondering if yours is the same?
Haven't actually had the time to go Dyno mine, prob should, and prob will in the near future, but several of my mates have the same car and setup and it pulls as strong, if not stronger than theirs. (minus the de-cat)
Id be very interested in the story about the IAT probe, i happened to have both here, the Bimmerworld (Randy's one) doesn't actually fit the Karbonious box in the place where its supposed to go, i guess you can use the other one if you stick it somewhere else..
Temps are coming down here are we speak, so will be hitting the track real soon.
the Dyno is normally done with the hood up, so that would negate any snorkel /ram effect anyhow, and i think even heat soak will be standard wether you have the temp probe internally, like OEM or somewhere else externally.
(thats dyno, real world results might differ)
interesting.. ill keep a watch on this thread to see how it develops.
Did Randy get back to you in regards to the IAT probe difference?
Cheers V.
Ive got a few busy weeks coming up, but after that ill see if i can get a dyno done for comparison.
I never got it done, as its more about drivability for me.
Id be very interested in the story about the IAT probe, i happened to have both here, the Bimmerworld (Randy's one) doesn't actually fit the Karbonious box in the place where its supposed to go, i guess you can use the other one if you stick it somewhere else..
Temps are coming down here are we speak, so will be hitting the track real soon.
the Dyno is normally done with the hood up, so that would negate any snorkel /ram effect anyhow, and i think even heat soak will be standard wether you have the temp probe internally, like OEM or somewhere else externally.
(thats dyno, real world results might differ)
interesting.. ill keep a watch on this thread to see how it develops.
Did Randy get back to you in regards to the IAT probe difference?
Cheers V.
Ive got a few busy weeks coming up, but after that ill see if i can get a dyno done for comparison.
I never got it done, as its more about drivability for me.
Just noticed this thread! I remember months ago when FD3S visited Cyprus and we went for a quick coffee, he was telling me all the mods he wanted to do and I was thinking to myself "This boy is crazy" (in a good way!) haha!
@FD3S, your car is amazing and the mods on it are I am sure you will get to the bottom of you issues soon! Only thing left is a nice brake kit and then a trip to Serres!
@FD3S, your car is amazing and the mods on it are
I am sure you will get to the bottom of you issues soon! Only thing left is a nice brake kit and then a trip to Serres! Vanne said:
I haven't thought that. It makes sense that with the open hood it doesn't make any difference the snorkel.
Vanne said:
I haven't told him about the IAT since I believed there was only once and it doesn't make difference. I will notify him however after I finish all the other stuff needed to be completed to have better chance correcting the issue. I will let you know how it goes.
Vanne said:Cheers V.
Ive got a few busy weeks coming up, but after that ill see if i can get a dyno done for comparison.
I never got it done, as its more about drivability for me.
Vanne it would be great if you find some time to dyno your car, since your car has a lot of future mods I would like to do
ga41 said:Just noticed this thread! I remember months ago when FD3S visited Cyprus and we went for a quick coffee, he was telling me all the mods he wanted to do and I was thinking to myself "This boy is crazy" (in a good way!) haha!
@FD3S, your car is amazing and the mods on it are
Ga41 thank you my friend for all the good words and your help with all those pm's.
I wish I could bring the car down for a ride together in the tunnels, to see if the airbox roars louder or the Rpi's
Btw I see you car very often in our small town. Please remind me which kind of BBK do you have? And you still have the stock wheels? I have to change all the brake rotors and the pads on the car and I am searching if it worths to upgrade to a BBK.
It's the Stoptech 355mm kit all around, 6piston front and 4piston rear. The kit comes with all necessary parts, discs, callipers, brake lines etc. You only need to buy spacers if you want to have them in the OEM wheels. It's a great kit and good price in the USA but expensive once you factor in shipping and custom costs. Maybe AP Racing would be best for you if you are buying in Europe, that kit can also use the stock rear discs.
And next time you see me shoot a message so we go for a beer or something, i thought you were back in Greece full time!
And next time you see me shoot a message so we go for a beer or something, i thought you were back in Greece full time!
The APs 'just' fit with the standard 224s and no spacers.
Fishy I would go probably for the AP Racing kit between the two. My concern is if it worths to spend 5k on a BBK kit on a car that never sees the track.. It seems like an overkill. The only reason it makes sense to go this way is in case within the next two years I decide to go the SC way. 
Finally I have found some time to start working on the car. I want to do some new mods. What I am thinking of are:
1) The car has to be repainted totally. Unfortunately an idiot has scratched the car all over with a screwdriver... Cost around 2000 euros.
2) It is time to change the front discs. I was thinking to purchase a BBK, but unfortunately the cost of the repaint doesn't allow to spend around 4 to 5k for new brakes. My options are to change the discs only or to purchase a kit which is not direct fit like our cars so it can be less expensive. What do you think?
3) I plan to do a custom made snorkel for the airbox. Unfortunately there is not enough room in our cars to create a big custom ram air so I have to design one that fits directly to our air duct. I would really appreciate if you could give me an idea if I could put a smaller radiator and if that worths the effort. The CSF aftermarket radiator is even bigger than the stock I guess. Any other solutions?
4) I am planning to buy some cams since I have a carbon airbox and a tune. However the information that I have found on the forum about cams are very few. From my research the cams that can be put on our car are:
1) Schrick 280/272 12.5mm Lift
2) Schrick 288/280 14mm Lift
3) Schrick 288/280 12.5mm LIft
4) Schrick 304/296 14mm Lift
From what I have seen the most guys go for the 288/280 setup, since the difference with 280/272 is insignificant. My questions are :
a) What gains should I expect with the 288/280 setup?
b) Are any problems that should be caused if i go this way? For example like not steady revs while starting the car or not good response on low revs?
c) Which kit of the 288/280 is the right? 12.5 mm or the 14mm and what difference do they have?
d) What other parts should I order and how many? Arm Rockers something else?
f) Could this change the life expectancy for my engine?
1) The car has to be repainted totally. Unfortunately an idiot has scratched the car all over with a screwdriver... Cost around 2000 euros.
2) It is time to change the front discs. I was thinking to purchase a BBK, but unfortunately the cost of the repaint doesn't allow to spend around 4 to 5k for new brakes. My options are to change the discs only or to purchase a kit which is not direct fit like our cars so it can be less expensive. What do you think?
3) I plan to do a custom made snorkel for the airbox. Unfortunately there is not enough room in our cars to create a big custom ram air so I have to design one that fits directly to our air duct. I would really appreciate if you could give me an idea if I could put a smaller radiator and if that worths the effort. The CSF aftermarket radiator is even bigger than the stock I guess. Any other solutions?
4) I am planning to buy some cams since I have a carbon airbox and a tune. However the information that I have found on the forum about cams are very few. From my research the cams that can be put on our car are:
1) Schrick 280/272 12.5mm Lift
2) Schrick 288/280 14mm Lift
3) Schrick 288/280 12.5mm LIft
4) Schrick 304/296 14mm Lift
From what I have seen the most guys go for the 288/280 setup, since the difference with 280/272 is insignificant. My questions are :
a) What gains should I expect with the 288/280 setup?
b) Are any problems that should be caused if i go this way? For example like not steady revs while starting the car or not good response on low revs?
c) Which kit of the 288/280 is the right? 12.5 mm or the 14mm and what difference do they have?
d) What other parts should I order and how many? Arm Rockers something else?
f) Could this change the life expectancy for my engine?