SMG Transmission? Any good?
- Thread starter SLK Driver
- Start date
3.0 si Sport SMG . . . .and I love it, leave in auto around town when the traffic is slooooow, auto for cruising on duals and motorways with the option to "kick down" in different stages using the throttle pedal or drop a couple of cogs using the paddles. Want to have some fun ?. . .Steptronic or paddles in Sport mode giving you the choice to change when you want with the back up of not cooking the engine.. And as far as ergonomics are concerned, I think BMW got it right when they chose the current left and right paddle system always mounted near your hands on the wheel, both operating with the same "logic" as opposed to the "cheaper " "fixed" plates of alloy which stay in situ on the column on many high performance cars . . . .
PS I like toys in my cars, and SMG is a lot of fun to play with . . . . .DELBOY
Yep, thanks Spud, I've got paddles on my M Sport steering wheel . . .and optional Tiptronic, or full auto, Sport option in any configuration . . . . . . . .and it's an 09 registered car . . . .
Delboy :wink:
I have (and prefer) a regular old "H" pattern manual transmission. I've also driven M5s and M6s on a performance driving course (with SMG). It has nice points, like rev matching on down shift and being able to keep both hands firmly on the wheel. That said, however, I *hated* the darn things. Running close to redline, up shifts would kick you right in the back. Now, the DCT in the M3 was fabulous. MUCH smoother than the SMG and the only manual transmission variant to possibly tempt me away from my standard tranny.
If there is any "auto" component to it at all, just give me a good old Steptronic.
If there is any "auto" component to it at all, just give me a good old Steptronic.
I'm a bit late to this thread, but thought I'd chip in and try to dispel some of the zombie "facts" about the Z4's SMG system.
Firstly it's not SSG and, accordingly, not the same system as was available in the E46 3 Series (or indeed the 6 Series, although the systems have similarities). It's known as H-SMG as it's based on the Z4's 6-speed H-pattern manual (hence the H) and it was only used on the Z4. And I'm quoting from the workshop training manual here!
I've got it on mine, which I sought out primarly for the SMG transmission back in 2006. I was coming from a Smart Roadster, which has similar transmission and therefore I know a bad one when I drive it, and the Z4's isn't that.
I don't have the time or inclination for a long diatribe about the system, but in summary; it's good for thrashing or city driving (of which I do a lot and because of which I'm grateful for the lack of a clutch), but you occasionally miss the direct interaction of a manual. It's a less advanced system than DSG/M-DCT which means you have to drive around it, by which I mean use the throttle to control the changes in some situations, which you don't in a dual-clutch system.
Firstly it's not SSG and, accordingly, not the same system as was available in the E46 3 Series (or indeed the 6 Series, although the systems have similarities). It's known as H-SMG as it's based on the Z4's 6-speed H-pattern manual (hence the H) and it was only used on the Z4. And I'm quoting from the workshop training manual here!
I've got it on mine, which I sought out primarly for the SMG transmission back in 2006. I was coming from a Smart Roadster, which has similar transmission and therefore I know a bad one when I drive it, and the Z4's isn't that.
I don't have the time or inclination for a long diatribe about the system, but in summary; it's good for thrashing or city driving (of which I do a lot and because of which I'm grateful for the lack of a clutch), but you occasionally miss the direct interaction of a manual. It's a less advanced system than DSG/M-DCT which means you have to drive around it, by which I mean use the throttle to control the changes in some situations, which you don't in a dual-clutch system.
The SMG gets a really bad press and it's undeserved.
The auto mode is really terrible, so just don't use it! It is so easy to use the wheel paddles or the stick and it's very easy to live with.
You need to remember it is an automated manual, so you need to treat it as such. You wouldn't shift in a manual and keep your foot down on the throttle then just let the clutch up would you? If you do this in an smg you get a jerk, but if you feather the throttle between shifts slightly you get perfect up-shifts all the time. In sport mode and at full chat you hardly need to lift at all for a very quick shift (not as super quick as an M3, but still pretty rapid). Downshifting is superb and the car bangs in a perfect blip on the change - you can brake hard and downshift right to the apex every time!
I wanted a 2 pedal motor to help with a hip problem I have, but didn't want to lose control in shifting and didn't want a slow-ass slush box. I approached SMG/SSG with some trepidation but 2 years in am still loving it and have no plans to swap!!
(Clearly it's now going to blow up in the morning......taxi!)
The auto mode is really terrible, so just don't use it! It is so easy to use the wheel paddles or the stick and it's very easy to live with.
You need to remember it is an automated manual, so you need to treat it as such. You wouldn't shift in a manual and keep your foot down on the throttle then just let the clutch up would you? If you do this in an smg you get a jerk, but if you feather the throttle between shifts slightly you get perfect up-shifts all the time. In sport mode and at full chat you hardly need to lift at all for a very quick shift (not as super quick as an M3, but still pretty rapid). Downshifting is superb and the car bangs in a perfect blip on the change - you can brake hard and downshift right to the apex every time!
I wanted a 2 pedal motor to help with a hip problem I have, but didn't want to lose control in shifting and didn't want a slow-ass slush box. I approached SMG/SSG with some trepidation but 2 years in am still loving it and have no plans to swap!!
(Clearly it's now going to blow up in the morning......taxi!)
It was marketed as SSG early on, then presumably the success of SMGII on the E46 M3 prompted a name change. Who knows.Andrew D said:
http://www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=27852#p27852
You see, this is exactly what I mean. You're absolutely correct, they do appear to have the same gearknob. But before we assume that the mechanicals are therefore identical, perhaps we should review Page 15 of this > http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/05 E85 Driveline.pdf, which is the workshop briefing manual for the launch of the Z4. I've quoted what I feel to be a relevent part below.mikedav said:
The optional Sequential Manual Gearbox (H-SMG) is a further development of the E85
GS6-37BZ 6-speed manual (H-gearbox). Compared to previous SMG technology,
changes include:
• Completely new transmission
• Mounting positions of the hydraulic components and the sensors on the transmission
housing.
It's true that in early literature the transmission was referred to as SSG. However, my car is MY2004 and says SMG and, given that the workshop manual for MY2003 calls it SMG, I'd suspect that it was changed before any cars went into production. Although, interestingly, from your photo it seems that the E46 was re-branded from SSG towards the end, so who knows what the marketing boys were up to?
Agree, from what i have heard dealers starting referring to SSG as SMG to
A) Make it simpler to understand - no need to differentiate between SMG in the M3 and SSG on the non M cars
B) Up sell - they can say 'same type of 'box you get in an M3'
Marketing eh!
I'm afraid that's not what the bulletin says though:
The GS6-37BZ 6-speed manual is the one fitted in an E46 too. So you could put 'E46' where it says 'E85' and it would still hold true. The 'completely new transmission' likely refers to the fact that it is not related to the old, original SMG box - the S6S 420G - in the E36...which is by far the worst as it was apparently unreliable too!
Linky
BMW 6 speed Manual / Non Sequential / GS6-37BZ
2004 - 2007 BMW Z4 3.0i Roadster E85
2000 - 2006 BMW 330Ci 2DR E46 BMW 330Ci CONV E46 BMW 330i 4DR E46 BMW 525i 4DR E60 BMW 530i 4DR E60
2005 - 2007 BMW 330i 4DR E90 BMW 530i 4DR E60
You will also note the part number for the gearbox fitted in the Z4 is the same one fitted to the E46 330...
BMW SEQUENTIAL 6 speed Manual / GS6S37BZ
BMW 330Ci / 330Ci CONV / 330i 4DR / 325Ci 2DR / 325Ci / 325i 4DR / 325i Touring
BMW 530i 4DR E39 BMW 525i 4DR E60
BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster E85
BMW Z4 3.0i Roadster E85
If you think about it there is no logical reason for them to be different anyway; the Z4 was E46 based and used E46 engines. To have one box for a 330i E46 with an M54 engine and another for a Z4 3.0i with an M54 engine doesn't make a lot of sense - if one or the other were better, use that in both....especially as both are supposed to be sporty, drivers cars.
A) Make it simpler to understand - no need to differentiate between SMG in the M3 and SSG on the non M cars
B) Up sell - they can say 'same type of 'box you get in an M3'
Marketing eh!
I'm afraid that's not what the bulletin says though:
Andrew D said:
The GS6-37BZ 6-speed manual is the one fitted in an E46 too. So you could put 'E46' where it says 'E85' and it would still hold true. The 'completely new transmission' likely refers to the fact that it is not related to the old, original SMG box - the S6S 420G - in the E36...which is by far the worst as it was apparently unreliable too!
Linky
BMW 6 speed Manual / Non Sequential / GS6-37BZ
2004 - 2007 BMW Z4 3.0i Roadster E85
2000 - 2006 BMW 330Ci 2DR E46 BMW 330Ci CONV E46 BMW 330i 4DR E46 BMW 525i 4DR E60 BMW 530i 4DR E60
2005 - 2007 BMW 330i 4DR E90 BMW 530i 4DR E60
You will also note the part number for the gearbox fitted in the Z4 is the same one fitted to the E46 330...
BMW SEQUENTIAL 6 speed Manual / GS6S37BZ
BMW 330Ci / 330Ci CONV / 330i 4DR / 325Ci 2DR / 325Ci / 325i 4DR / 325i Touring
BMW 530i 4DR E39 BMW 525i 4DR E60
BMW Z4 2.5i Roadster E85
BMW Z4 3.0i Roadster E85
If you think about it there is no logical reason for them to be different anyway; the Z4 was E46 based and used E46 engines. To have one box for a 330i E46 with an M54 engine and another for a Z4 3.0i with an M54 engine doesn't make a lot of sense - if one or the other were better, use that in both....especially as both are supposed to be sporty, drivers cars.
Well, a quick trawl on RealOEM.com confirms it; the H-SMG box (or rather, part number GS6S37BZ-THOA) was indeed available on the E46.
However, it only seems to become available for MY2003 cars (which was about the time of the facelift, unless I'm mistaken), prior to which a five-speed, horrendously-complex-looking sequential was available instead. So the bulletin seems correct; it's a new transmission, just not exclusive to the Z4. I suppose that also explains why the E46 photo had an SMG gearknob, rather than it just being a cynical re-branding exercise.
However, it only seems to become available for MY2003 cars (which was about the time of the facelift, unless I'm mistaken), prior to which a five-speed, horrendously-complex-looking sequential was available instead. So the bulletin seems correct; it's a new transmission, just not exclusive to the Z4. I suppose that also explains why the E46 photo had an SMG gearknob, rather than it just being a cynical re-branding exercise.
Personally I thought SMG was good... I just think most people don't get how to drive them.
My workmate bought one and, for example, he lifted when he sensed it changing, kinda a natural reaction. The problem is the computer does that for you, so you leave your foot where it is.
Even flat out he'd lift a bit, but the computer yet again looks at what you want by looking at the throttle position etc... so foot flat and it shifts fast and still smooth imho.
Super sport launch mode is faster still, 1st > 2nd is very very fast, probably 200ms or less.
Just depends what you want really.
I think it's auto is nice when you just want to drive after a long day and don't want to change gear yourself. Then there is the opposite end of the spectrum, when you really want to just feel like a racing driver and use all the revs and the SMG helps you do that at any point on the road! Also where it may be nice is in overtaking etc, where in the manual you have to prep for an overtake with more thought and planning etc, with SMG you can leave it in sport, it'll get aggressive for you, then mash it and it'll do all the work for you when you want to get on!
I think I'd like either, but what sealed it for me was that I'd leave it in auto too much and I just didn't want something that would make me miss out on the fun of heel and toeing my shifts and the reward and satisfaction that comes from that all the time
Try one if you can, and remember, don't move your throttle position when it does it's thing. Mash it and hold it to experience the full-bore shifts in sports mode! It is impressively fast and smooth!
Dave
My workmate bought one and, for example, he lifted when he sensed it changing, kinda a natural reaction. The problem is the computer does that for you, so you leave your foot where it is.
Even flat out he'd lift a bit, but the computer yet again looks at what you want by looking at the throttle position etc... so foot flat and it shifts fast and still smooth imho.
Super sport launch mode is faster still, 1st > 2nd is very very fast, probably 200ms or less.
Just depends what you want really.
I think it's auto is nice when you just want to drive after a long day and don't want to change gear yourself. Then there is the opposite end of the spectrum, when you really want to just feel like a racing driver and use all the revs and the SMG helps you do that at any point on the road! Also where it may be nice is in overtaking etc, where in the manual you have to prep for an overtake with more thought and planning etc, with SMG you can leave it in sport, it'll get aggressive for you, then mash it and it'll do all the work for you when you want to get on!
I think I'd like either, but what sealed it for me was that I'd leave it in auto too much and I just didn't want something that would make me miss out on the fun of heel and toeing my shifts and the reward and satisfaction that comes from that all the time
Try one if you can, and remember, don't move your throttle position when it does it's thing. Mash it and hold it to experience the full-bore shifts in sports mode! It is impressively fast and smooth!
Dave
I have SMG in mine and I can honestly say it makes the car for me. You do have to learn to adjust your driving technique a little to get on with it and I think that is what probably puts many off when test driving this transmission as it does take some getting used to - however I enjoyed the learning something new experience with mine. For a while when I first had the car I just used to leave it in automatic and let the car get on with it but that hardly ever happens now. It is still useful to have the SMG auto option when you need to do something else as well as drive like fiddle with the sat-nav, drink coffee, use your phone (I call it McDonalds Mode). I love changing gear with the paddle system and not having to bother with the clutch, it is (to me) much easier yet also much more involving as to get the best out of it you really do need to be in-tune with the car far more than with a manual.
Someone linked my earlier review of it on page one of this topic. My views have not changed much.
Someone linked my earlier review of it on page one of this topic. My views have not changed much.