Slight shudder / vibration on braking
- Thread starter Theog
- Start date
Apologies, said I'd update this with my findings, it's taken longer than I expected after having some issues with my daily as well as the Zed.
Right, so I replaced the lower wishbones, the lollipops and drop links thinking this may cure the vibration (vibration was only under braking prior to this). This did not have the desired effect as the car then had quite a severe vibration around 60-70mph (now all the time, not just under braking) which got worse with higher speeds. Similar to tram lining but a higher frequency, the steering wheel shakes from side to side and you can feel it through the car, really was a bit of a nightmare. However at higher speeds than this you could feel vibrations but the car was more settled, i.e. didn't feel like it was trying to put you in the hard shoulder.
So I figured it might be an alignment issue, I bought both inner and outer tie rods, had them fitted and had a laser alignment done. The car was quite a fair bit out, I was given a before and after print out. Seemed to feel better and it handles well although the vibration at 60 was still there...
Worth mentioning that the vibration under braking was still there, if not getting worse.
So, bearing in mind what Wildfire said with respect to one exacerbating the other, I fitted new discs and pads all round yesterday. Finished quite late last night, so only just had a chance to take it out this evening. Can report the brakes are now fine, no vibration and feel good, so there was a problem there which has been cured.
However, the vibration in a straight-line at 60+mph is still there! I'm really at a loss with what to do now, I'll try and get the front wheels balanced and see if that has any effect.
To describe it: It's a wobble through the steering wheel of varying severity and sometimes feels like it's tugging the car from side to side. Other than this, car feels tight and handles well. Frustrating to have replaced so may components and appear to have made the problem worse!
There's quite a lengthy thread on motorway steering so I'll have a look through that in the mean time.
Right, so I replaced the lower wishbones, the lollipops and drop links thinking this may cure the vibration (vibration was only under braking prior to this). This did not have the desired effect as the car then had quite a severe vibration around 60-70mph (now all the time, not just under braking) which got worse with higher speeds. Similar to tram lining but a higher frequency, the steering wheel shakes from side to side and you can feel it through the car, really was a bit of a nightmare. However at higher speeds than this you could feel vibrations but the car was more settled, i.e. didn't feel like it was trying to put you in the hard shoulder.
So I figured it might be an alignment issue, I bought both inner and outer tie rods, had them fitted and had a laser alignment done. The car was quite a fair bit out, I was given a before and after print out. Seemed to feel better and it handles well although the vibration at 60 was still there...
Worth mentioning that the vibration under braking was still there, if not getting worse.
So, bearing in mind what Wildfire said with respect to one exacerbating the other, I fitted new discs and pads all round yesterday. Finished quite late last night, so only just had a chance to take it out this evening. Can report the brakes are now fine, no vibration and feel good, so there was a problem there which has been cured.
However, the vibration in a straight-line at 60+mph is still there! I'm really at a loss with what to do now, I'll try and get the front wheels balanced and see if that has any effect.
To describe it: It's a wobble through the steering wheel of varying severity and sometimes feels like it's tugging the car from side to side. Other than this, car feels tight and handles well. Frustrating to have replaced so may components and appear to have made the problem worse!
There's quite a lengthy thread on motorway steering so I'll have a look through that in the mean time.
You also have vibrations when NOT braking? Thats new.
Then you might have saved all that trouble and costs, because the first thing to do in such a case is balance the wheels and check rims/tyres on rondness and straightness. Easy and cheap checkup compared to replacing parts
Next check driveshafts on inbalance (although small chance that's it).
Then you might have saved all that trouble and costs, because the first thing to do in such a case is balance the wheels and check rims/tyres on rondness and straightness. Easy and cheap checkup compared to replacing parts
Next check driveshafts on inbalance (although small chance that's it).
GuidoK said:You also have vibrations when NOT braking? Thats new.
Then you might have saved all that trouble and costs, because the first thing to do in such a case is balance the wheels and check rims/tyres on rondness and straightness. Easy and cheap checkup compared to replacing parts
Next check driveshafts on inbalance (although small chance that's it).
There was no vibration whilst NOT braking until I changed the parts.... Now there is.
Not too concerned about having replaced a load of parts, as the cars done 80k so a complete suspension refresh won't have done any harm.
They did mention there may be a slight bend in one of the struts when doing the alignment, I've since found a thread with similar symptoms and strut replacements were mentioned.
Would a drive shaft imbalance manifest itself predominantly through the steering wheel? I would be expecting a vibration 'seat of the pants' through the car instead if that was the case, although I guess I can check them too.
Ok that's strange.bemo said:There was no vibration whilst NOT braking until I changed the parts.... Now there is.
Are the brake discs installed properly? that means that the hub (on which the disc is mounted) is cleaned (with a steel brush or so) so that there is absolutely no debris.
Have you measured the outrun in the discs with a micrometer dial like I suggested? Preferably on both the old discs and new discs, cause we dont know if its 1 problem or a bunch of problems.
Normally yes but I cant feel what you feel
GuidoK said:Ok that's strange.bemo said:There was no vibration whilst NOT braking until I changed the parts.... Now there is.
Are the brake discs installed properly? that means that the hub (on which the disc is mounted) is cleaned (with a steel brush or so) so that there is absolutely no debris.
Have you measured the outrun in the discs with a micrometer dial like I suggested? Preferably on both the old discs and new discs, cause we dont know if its 1 problem or a bunch of problems.
Normally yes but I cant feel what you feel
Brakes all installed correctly, everything was taken apart and cleaned thoroughly, I'm pretty anal about these things. I've not measured the discs, but the braking vibration has disappeared after changing the discs and pads.
Re the feeling, I know you can't
but was open to all suggestions so thanks for the response anyway! I seem to be causing some confusion here so may start a new thread of my own...
Hey Peeps
Sorry for late reply, been a little busy over past few days.
@bemo - interesting findings, have a read of my update below... may help.
Short recap = I was experiencing shuddering under light braking over 50mph. This went away on hard braking. I also find vibration whilst driving over 80mph. I had a slight squeaking sound from the back left.
Update = I have had a stage one service. They said car was in good condition however they replaced both front disks and pads. They also found the back right calliper was a little rusty and so replaced as they could not change fluid. They said replace part is cheaper than manual work to recondition (hourly rate £48 an hour at local indy).
So far all shudder has completely gone under braking however still shudder over 80mph... they said (@bemo interesting?) that due due to front alignment issues, or balancing the tires had worn grater on the insides. They did not confirm this could be the issues however they said this could be not noticiable at low speed, but higher speed brings out the smaller differences. I have yet to change the front tires but really hope this sorts it out (cross fingers).
The squeaking believe it or not was an issue with the exhaust! I think the guy before hit something and the bolt holding the exhaust was a little loose so it was moving around a little under bumpy roads. The guys at the garage have welded it together but they said it will have to be fixed properly in the long term. However they said that is a fiddly job due to rust on some of the bolts so will be labour intensive, so putting that aside for the time being as my last bill was just over £800, so trying to keep costs down.
Overall = happy with brakes, still need to sort out high speed vibrations. Will update once tires have been changed.
Theo
Sorry for late reply, been a little busy over past few days.
@bemo - interesting findings, have a read of my update below... may help.
Short recap = I was experiencing shuddering under light braking over 50mph. This went away on hard braking. I also find vibration whilst driving over 80mph. I had a slight squeaking sound from the back left.
Update = I have had a stage one service. They said car was in good condition however they replaced both front disks and pads. They also found the back right calliper was a little rusty and so replaced as they could not change fluid. They said replace part is cheaper than manual work to recondition (hourly rate £48 an hour at local indy).
So far all shudder has completely gone under braking however still shudder over 80mph... they said (@bemo interesting?) that due due to front alignment issues, or balancing the tires had worn grater on the insides. They did not confirm this could be the issues however they said this could be not noticiable at low speed, but higher speed brings out the smaller differences. I have yet to change the front tires but really hope this sorts it out (cross fingers).
The squeaking believe it or not was an issue with the exhaust! I think the guy before hit something and the bolt holding the exhaust was a little loose so it was moving around a little under bumpy roads. The guys at the garage have welded it together but they said it will have to be fixed properly in the long term. However they said that is a fiddly job due to rust on some of the bolts so will be labour intensive, so putting that aside for the time being as my last bill was just over £800, so trying to keep costs down.
Overall = happy with brakes, still need to sort out high speed vibrations. Will update once tires have been changed.
Theo