^^^...20ducks said:
Should we bail the Big Three?
- Thread starter rollingstone
- Start date
20ducks said:
I saw that just the other day... 1,600 dollars from each GM car pays for the UAW labor health benefits (didn't see mention of a pension). Compared to 300 dollars off the sticker of a Toyota to pay for non-union health benefits.
Before we give one dime to any of these corporations the government needs to make this conditional and force the UAW to get things restructured a little differently -- less wages, fewer raises, less healthcare, less of a pension. Every corporation that isn't asking for a bailout right now is going in this direction. I know my pension went away a few years back, replaced with a 401k plan that's worth about 4 dollars and 1 cent right now. If the UAW refuses then they don't get a dime and the US will just send monthly unemployment and welfare checks to the former auto workers instead. If it isn't made with this condition then once the Big Three burn through the billions of bailout dollars (which should be fairly quickly), the next time we hit an economic slowdown no one will have enough money to pay for their outlandish pensions and healthcare UAW receives.
All I seem to hear about is what a crime it is that the executives of these corporations are making millions of dollars. What about Honda and Toyota execs? I'm sure they're seeing similar compensation, yet those non-union corps seem to be weathering fairly well. They're not having banner years, but they're not asking for a bail out either.
This is the second or third time Daimler-Chrysler is begging for a bailout, how unsuccessful does a company have to be before they're denied special funding? It isn't fair to companies able to make a profit and not rely on huge sums of corporate welfare when things turn bleak for a few months, and it certainly isn't fair to us the taxpayers to foot the bill for people that shouldn't be getting 93% of their healthcare paid for and 90% of their pay once they retire. Every sizable corporation will have an upper echelon of executives that make millions of dollars. I'm not saying I condone it 100% of the time, but that is just a drop in the bucket compared to the tens of billions of dollars each of the Big Three pay for their union auto workers pensions and healthcare each year.
20ducks said:
Hopefully something a bit more eloquent than what she wore on election day.
WaZZZZman said:I am sorry, but unions are obsolete and not needed. There are way too many federal laws already in place to protect employees. If the fair labor standards act (FLSA) book fell on you it would kill you. All a company would have to do is match wages and benefits to keep good employees and provide free legal services so employees who feel they are being treated or terminated unfairly would have some recourse. Labor unions are only good for their own autocracy and only look after their own interests. Many times they are in the pocket of management and actually work against their members. Been there done that.
x2
HOnestly I don't think any company should be bailed out by the govt but I don't see a choice here. Literally more than a million jobs will be lost if they don't. Can't afford to have that happen even if it means gov't intervention which shouldnt happen in a capitalist society :thumbsdown: 
It isn't that we should or shouldn't help. The big 3 must bring in a plan that shows how they are going to pay back the money: all of the components (management/grass root/union) must make concessions otherwise it is a farce. If the UAW wants to stick to their latest contract then they will do so with a bankrupt company. If management wants to make cars that people just don't buy enough of they will be back for more funding. Grass root workers that need a committee to stop the production line because of the union contract @$40/hour plus need to get a reality check. This does not help any of these car makers be competitive. Perhaps these people live in another dimension, perhaps they need a lesson.
south yorkshire
bailng out is a last ditch effort- maybe the big3 need to thnk of a long term strategy- liike building better/fewer cars!
Not sure if the public understands that whether we bail out or not they have about 50% too much capacity. Regardless of what happens there will be plant shutdowns and closings, something that the foreign companies are already doing. The level of sales that they have experienced cannot be sustained, no matter how much bail out money comes their way!