Should Trump be impeached...?

[Flyingfifer]

Christ you’d hope someone better than any of these will emerge by next term....

Obama wasn’t corrupt, far from it, but he was weak and didn’t do much considering two terms in office did he, good man though. What they need is an Obama with balls. Trump needs to stay out, he encourages division and controversy and not in a good way, America doesn’t need the pot stirring anymore, the good things he did came at too high a price, and he has no right to pull out of the Paris agreement, that was unforgivable. If Trump returning is the best they can come up with they’re in the soup.

Obama was a massive disappointment I genuinely hoped he would have really changed the direction of the US away from war and ushered in a more positive forward looking America

I cant disagree more though that Trump caused division or just stirred the pot, that was the media and the dems pure and simple, they spend every waking moment from the point he was confirmed as the winner trying to discredit, undermine, vilify and demonise the guy. Hes an arsehole but I have never seen so many lies, half truths and misrepresentations be used so consistently against someone, that's what creates division. In terms of the Paris climate accords that was a big disappointment but also a deeply complex and nuanced argument in terms of countries like China and India.

I initially hoped that Bernie would win but unfortunately the prolific corruption within the democratic party put a stop to that and then he sold out and endorsed Shillery (a catastrophic error in judgement and a complete abandonment of any principle imo), that then meant that I was a defacto Trump supporter (being that I wouldnt trust that woman with a cup of coffee never mind the US), then I watched what happened for 4 years (as above) while looking into the claims and realising that in almost their entirety they were never fully true or in good faith or legitimate then the dems come up with sleepy creepy Joe and I yet again found myself supporting Trump. Me the life long traditional leftist

 

[Z4paul]

He was elected because the American people were fed up of corrupt politicians and he wasn't a politician. Then they were surprised when he didn't do things in a politically correct way. Impeachment is a political ruse to prevent him standing for office again because they fear he may win again. I couldn't care less which side they vote for but people should be careful what they wish for. Suspect in a couple of years time and IMHO, when Biden steps down as planned and they get a couple of years of Kamala Harris's policies they may be begging for Trump to stand again.

Agreed
I think the impeachment is the swamp/establishment trying to solidify their control over politics again, I think that Trump's election was a shock and they didnt actually believe it would happen.

Christ you’d hope someone better than any of these will emerge by next term....

Obama wasn’t corrupt, far from it, but he was weak and didn’t do much considering two terms in office did he, good man though. What they need is an Obama with balls. Trump needs to stay out, he encourages division and controversy and not in a good way, America doesn’t need the pot stirring anymore, the good things he did came at too high a price, and he has no right to pull out of the Paris agreement, that was unforgivable. If Trump returning is the best they can come up with they’re in the soup.

+1 for an 'Obama with balls' !! Whilst i understand the initial attraction of someone like Trump the 'gloss" soon wore away...grab em by the pussy whether they want it not...never paid a penny in tax...serial bankrupt where tradespeople / contractors often left high and dry....climate change denier...talked about draining the swamp but very much part of this through nepotism / bullying...catastrophe of their response to covid..
Biden might offer a more statesmanlike approach on the world stage but...is this the best the us has to offer ???

 

[Flyingfifer]

+1 for an 'Obama with balls' !! Whilst i understand the initial attraction of someone like Trump the 'gloss" soon wore away...grab em by the pussy whether they want it not...never paid a penny in tax...serial bankrupt where tradespeople / contractors often left high and dry....climate change denier...talked about draining the swamp but very much part of this through nepotism / bullying...catastrophe of their response to covid..
Biden might offer a more statesmanlike approach on the world stage but...is this the best the us has to offer ???

Ahhh the pussy line, always conveniently cut to make it sound worse and non consensual, the missing part here is "And when you're a star they let you do it" is it vulgar? Yes. Is it rape? No.

Tax: jury is out on that, he probably paid very little the big question is did he break any laws, if not, can you actually blame him? Id avoid tax if I could and I know several small business owners that do the exact same and its perfectly legal.

Bankruptcy: Another spinning of the truth, he has never been personally bankrupt but several of the businesses he had have been, that's not unusual, businesses fail every day and he has his fingers in plenty of them.

Climate change: he is absolutely wrong here.

COVID: Again lots and lots of misinformation here. Trump established the Coronavirus taskforce on January 29th 2020, 9 days after the first case was discovered and a day before the WHO declared a public health concern of international concern, the following day 31st of January Trump declared a public health emergency and took steps to block travel from china, the dems called him a racist and xenophobe etc etc, Nancy Peloci went to china town and was encouraging people to come visit. This was going on while the dems primary focus was the first attempt to impeach Trump. Furthermore, the US isnt the same as us, the states are far more autonomous than most people in the UK understand or realise, the president cannot rule by fiat, something Biden has realised as his "national mask mandate" has become a federal property mask mandate.
[youtube]l_DHdk6Mw68[/youtube]

Biden is a return to form in terms of "the establishment" unfortunately there doesnt seem to be any people of quality that can be put forward at this stage. From what I saw I was impressed by Tulsi Gabbard but honestly I would need to look into her a lot more.

 

[Nanu]

Well, must say the debate has been an eye opener. Opposing views politely "argued". If only our politicians were Z4 owners, they could learn a lot from this forum, just as I have from opinions expressed that haven't exactly been the same as my own. Happy to continue debate on Trump and American politics but climate change. Perhaps not. It's happening yes we all can see that, but man made. I have yet to be convinced. Can't beat mother nature.

 

[Z4C_er]

I gotta say that the current establishment have exposed their true selves. Such hate, such vindictive, spiteful behavior. So much for 'Unity'. Biden told everyone about unity in the inauguration but now it's all about hate.
Disgusting hypocrites.

 

[Flyingfifer]

I gotta say that the current establishment have exposed their true selves. Such hate, such vindictive, spiteful behavior. So much for 'Unity'. Biden told everyone about unity in the inauguration but now it's all about hate.
Disgusting hypocrites.

100% right, this is astounding levels of hypocrisy never mind the fact that they are trying to impeach a private citizen but in their "evidence" being presented as part of this sham "trial" is nothing more than editorial think pieces from partisan news papers, tweets and out of context quotes of trump. They actually showed him asking people to peacefully protest as part of their evidence that he was inciting violence... it boggles the fkin mind! Also what is happening today isnt actually part of the trial, its just a hearing to decide if its constitutional to proceed with the impeachment given that they are trying to impeach (effectively a procedure used to remove from office) a private citizen that currently does not hold office. Thats why the Chief Justice isnt there and instead there is a Democrat Rep ruling on a trial that he will be Judge and Jury for AS WELL AS a participating witness!!! Its beyond comprehension.

 

[rdgreen]

What goes around, eventually comes around. Accusing others of vindictive behaviour after 4 years of nothing but that sort of behaviour, had me rolling on the floor.

 

[Vornwend]

Both sides are often as bad as each other in my opinion - in the congress and the senate. Unfortunately in the world we live in the politics of division and hate still generate significant numbers of votes for these characters so I can't see much changing there. In terms of the POTUS and his administration I do see a difference between him and Trump. He has stayed away from the impeachment as far as possible and is seemingly trying to reach out to both sides in trying to get critical legislation through. I don't think Trump ever operated that way and was happy to slag off anyone who disagreed with him including members of his own party.

Biden is an old hand at working across party divides and that has a much greater chance of achieving a measure of unity than his awful predecessor who sought to divide at every opportunity. On his first day in office, when swearing in the administrations employees (several hundred I believe, including many from the previous administration) he said " if I hear any of you talking down to or insulting others I will fire you on the spot". In itself not going to end the hatred and divisiveness but a very clear statement of intent in my book and in total contrast to his predecessors approach.

Trump deliberately stoked the events that lead to what happened on 6th January and the impeachment is his formal punishment even though he won't be convicted. I think he lost a massive amount of support as a result of Covid (hence the huge election defeat) and even more after that for refusing to accept that defeat and stoking the insurrection (hence leaving office with the lowest approval rating of any president). Ultimately that is a much more damaging punishment for him than this trial.

 

[Flyingfifer]

Both sides are often as bad as each other in my opinion - in the congress and the senate. Unfortunately in the world we live in the politics of division and hate still generate significant numbers of votes for these characters so I can't see much changing there.

Correct, between the RINOs and the "Woke" Dems and the "Establishment" nothing will really change and if anything it will just get worse, this sham is a big part of that.

In terms of the POTUS and his administration I do see a difference between him and Trump. He has stayed away from the impeachment as far as possible and is seemingly trying to reach out to both sides in trying to get critical legislation through. I don't think Trump ever operated that way and was happy to slag off anyone who disagreed with him including members of his own party. Biden is an old hand at working across party divides and that has a much greater chance of achieving a measure of unity than his awful predecessor who sought to divide at every opportunity.

That's like blaming someone for not being cosy with a pack of rabid starving wolves, consider the pure distilled vitriol that the core of the Dems had for Trump from before he was even sworn in ffs! That continued and only intensified as time went on, to the point that I wouldn't be surprised if Trump had a terrible accident to see Pelosi strip down and run around the street cackling like an absolute maniac. The TDS they suffered was off the scale and unlike anything I've ever seen before, add to that the non stop constant stoking of division and animosity by the MSM and its hardly surprising that Trump wasn't able to work with them.

Trump deliberately stoked the events that lead to what happened on 6th January and the impeachment is his formal punishment even though he won't be convicted. I think he lost a massive amount of support as a result of Covid (hence the huge election defeat) and even more after that for refusing to accept that defeat and stoking the insurrection

Given that at no point ever did Trump call for violence or disorder and in reality actually asked for peace and peacefulness I can only assume you are claiming that raising legitimate concerns about the election can be classed as him having "stoked the events". So out of interest lets just suspend reason and reality for a minute as I would be fascinated with your opinion on the Dems who for 4 years were absolutely adamant that the election was stolen by Trump with the aid of the Russians? Or what about "Insurrection" if you think what happened on the 6th was an Insurrection what was happening for months and months before as BLM and Antifa rampaged across America burning and looting as they went including in DC and at the Capitol?

(hence leaving office with the lowest approval rating of any president). Ultimately that is a much more damaging punishment for him than this trial.

Did you just make that one up or were you fed that by the MSM as well? Reality Clicky

Here is a secret cheat code for the TDS sufferers.... if you want to beat Trump, stop talking about him.

 

[Z4C_er]

What goes around, eventually comes around. Accusing others of vindictive behaviour after 4 years of nothing but that sort of behaviour, had me rolling on the floor.

Well this is exactly my point. You're going down the tit-for-tat route, the 'who's the bigger @...hole' route. If that's how you live, then so be it. I don't.
This election was supposedly all about the by the caring, sharing let's bring America together again left, and as soon as they get into office, it's all about destruction and hatred.
As I said, hypocrisy at the highest level.
As some commentator said, "it's like winning a tennis game, then jumping over the net and bludgeoning to death your opponent with your racket."
So much for unity and healing.

 

[Flyingfifer]

I forgot to mention the below, "Fortify the election" Fortify is an interesting word to use
Clicky

 

[Vornwend]

Given that at no point ever did Trump call for violence or disorder and in reality actually asked for peace and peacefulness I can only assume you are claiming that raising legitimate concerns about the election can be classed as him having "stoked the events"

6th Jan on the Ellipse - Trump: "Fight like hell" Guiliani: "Trial by combat". He had his chance to riase legitimate concerns, ask for recounts etc. He lost repeatedly and failed to accept that. He then proceeded to continually stoke insurrection by claiming that the election was stolen and the subject of a massive and concerted fraud despite there being no evidence of it on the scale required to overturn such a massive defeat. He refused to concede and what followed was the inevitable result of all that and I hold him fully accountable. The difference between Trump and Clinton is that she accepted the result, even attending his inuaguration thus signalling that the result was legitimate. Neither she nor Biden can control what party members say and do - as far as I know its not at all like the UK where MPs can have the whip removed?

I don't condone the BLM/Antifa violence at all and it can't be used to excuse what happened on 6th Jan.

I heard Trump left with only 29% approval rating but whether that or 34% its still historically very, very low especially if you exclude results from before the use of scientific polling.

Trump reaped what he sowed with the MSM. From day 1 he was calling honest reporting fake news (how many attended his inauguration??)and then spent the next 4 years lambasting the MSM or anybody else that didn't agree with him with constant insults - "lamestream media" etc etc. Its widely reported that he lied or misled over 30,000 times in his presidency so hardly surprising he got a hard time from the press. The press conferences themselves were an embarrasment.

Agree that we don't want to be talking about him anymore. Its such a relief to see the back of him. He got exactly what he deserved and I hope we never see his ilk in such a position of power again. He may have struck a populist chord with those who felt discontented/disenfranchised by politics but his character was utterly unsuited to high office.

 

[Z4C_er]

This was what he was up against, and we all are today. Do you think they went away?

 

[Z4C_er]

... And don't get me started on Barry Soetoro (aka Barak Obama the second).
He with the hidden past.

 

[Vornwend]

This was what he was up against, and we all are today. Do you think they went away?
img_0225_2.jpg

Nothing surprising there. Who knew politics and the media are intertwined?, always have been always will be. Folk move from politics to media and vice versa. People with similar political views are attracted to each other - so what? Plenty of Trump folks came from or are going to the media - google Scaramucci or Larry Krudlow or Kayleigh McEnany and Fox news to get a flavour. Of course the media has influence but its both left and right and to try and suggest that its all one way is just wrong just as it is to suggest that all of the MSM is part of some conspiracy - in my opinion anyway.

Barry Soetoro - hah, another false conspiracy theory to add to the pile

 

[Flyingfifer]

6th Jan on the Ellipse - Trump: "Fight like hell" Guiliani: "Trial by combat". He had his chance to riase legitimate concerns, ask for recounts etc. He lost repeatedly and failed to accept that. He then proceeded to continually stoke insurrection by claiming that the election was stolen and the subject of a massive and concerted fraud despite there being no evidence of it on the scale required to overturn such a massive defeat.

Yet again with either outright dishonest out of context quotes or you are simply parroting the MSM line on it.
Trump said "we're gonna fight like hell" in the context of him and his team fighting the outcome of the election NOT actually fighting with people (Source)
Guiliani said "trial by combat" while taking about the legal battles that were ongoing and that he would stake his reputation if they would stake theirs (again Source but as hard as I tried I couldnt find a full unedited version... must have been lost in a memory hole)

He refused to concede and what followed was the inevitable result of all that and I hold him fully accountable. The difference between Trump and Clinton is that she accepted the result, even attending his inuaguration thus signalling that the result was legitimate. Neither she nor Biden can control what party members say and do - as far as I know its not at all like the UK where MPs can have the whip removed?

LMFAO Dude, please, open your eyes and ears, stop eating up the propaganda
September 2019 the below took place. (relevant part is about 50s in)
[youtube]XQesfLIycJw[/youtube]

Clinton also said this...
[youtube]44AbGEHhzg4[/youtube]

In the words of Joe... C'mon Man!

Trump reaped what he sowed with the MSM. From day 1 he was calling honest reporting fake news (how many attended his inauguration??)and then spent the next 4 years lambasting the MSM or anybody else that didn't agree with him with constant insults - "lamestream media" etc etc. Its widely reported that he lied or misled over 30,000 times in his presidency so hardly surprising he got a hard time from the press. The press conferences themselves were an embarrasment.

Lul wut, even now you actually think the MSM was "honest"............ wow
I am glad to know that 52% of Americans and between 50 - 64% of Brits (depending on specifics of the Q) have little to no confidence in the media

Agree that we don't want to be talking about him anymore. Its such a relief to see the back of him. He got exactly what he deserved and I hope we never see his ilk in such a position of power again. He may have struck a populist chord with those who felt discontented/disenfranchised by politics but his character was utterly unsuited to high office.

2024 baby

 

[Z4C_er]

This was what he was up against, and we all are today. Do you think they went away?
img_0225_2.jpg

Nothing surprising there. Who knew politics and the media are intertwined?, always have been always will be. Folk move from politics to media and vice versa. People with similar political views are attracted to each other - so what? Plenty of Trump folks came from or are going to the media - google Scaramucci or Larry Krudlow or Kayleigh McEnany and Fox news to get a flavour. Of course the media has influence but its both left and right and to try and suggest that its all one way is just wrong just as it is to suggest that all of the MSM is part of some conspiracy - in my opinion anyway.

Barry Soetoro - hah, another false conspiracy theory to add to the pile

Care to dig out some past on him then to set the world straight? Maybe his birth certificate as Barak Obama? Oh, not the one printed after he was born on a printer that wasn't even invented in 1961. Or the certificate from Kenya when it wasn't even Kenya in 1961. It was the Colony of Kenya.
This is interesting:
https://www.thegovernmentrag.com/birther-of-a-nation.html#.YCPA2-hKguU

 

[Vornwend]

This was what he was up against, and we all are today. Do you think they went away?
img_0225_2.jpg

Nothing surprising there. Who knew politics and the media are intertwined?, always have been always will be. Folk move from politics to media and vice versa. People with similar political views are attracted to each other - so what? Plenty of Trump folks came from or are going to the media - google Scaramucci or Larry Krudlow or Kayleigh McEnany and Fox news to get a flavour. Of course the media has influence but its both left and right and to try and suggest that its all one way is just wrong just as it is to suggest that all of the MSM is part of some conspiracy - in my opinion anyway.

Barry Soetoro - hah, another false conspiracy theory to add to the pile

Care to dig out some past on him then to set the world straight? Maybe his birth certificate as Barak Obama? Oh, not the one printed after he was born on a printer that wasn't even invented in 1961. Or the certificate from Kenya when it wasn't even Kenya in 1961. It was the Colony of Kenya.
This is interesting:
https://www.thegovernmentrag.com/birther-of-a-nation.html#.YCPA2-hKguU

Nope. Haven't got the time or inclination. Its just another conspiracy theory that has been disproved countless times in court and out as you probably well know 8)

 

[Z4C_er]

Hands over ears "la-la-la-la"

 

[Vornwend]

2024 baby

Enjoy the wait :lol: