SC 2.5 or hold out for the Z4M?

D

Defy

Member
OK now before you fly off the handle and say Z4M i wanted to throw the pros and cons.

I have a 2004 2.5 with about 55k on it and i owe about 12k (i have had it for less than a year) I should have it paid off in about 9-12 months. I am currently happy with the torqueiness of this car but less than satisfied at the top end. IF i go the SC route i am looking at about 10k for the SC, Suspension, IC and Clutch kit. I have experience with turbos so i should be pretty good with the SC, but i might have a shop install witch would bump up the price to about 12k. After i do that i will have added about maybe 3-5k to the value of my car and would probably just keep it until i blow it up :D (i always lose money when moding cars, don't we all). The pros are for about 27k (over time not all at once) i will have about a 300 horse go kart :driving: and would have had the fun of building it! My insurance would still be that of a 2.5 :D and i could have that in about a year or so (the wife won't let me dump money in to it until i pay it off).

Now for the M. It would cost about 30kish for a used one and would come already at 300+ horses. I would have to pay crazy insurance (i'm 25) like i did with my R32 and later i might have the bug to SC that :? but i would probably be happy enough not to SC it. Also i would have to wait about 2 years until i saved enough to get it.

So instant (relatively speaking) gratification with the 2.5 SC or wait it out and get an M??? Third option give the Zed to the wife and get a Z3M and have both =)


(I think i already talked my self out of the SC, unless some can find me one for like 3-4k :roll:
 
Hold out for the M. The M is more than just the extra horsepower. It's the total package - HP, styling, LSD, hydraulic steering, quad exhausts, M-seats, M-instrument clusters, prestige, history, and many others. Not to mention you keep the warranty and free maintenance. And the M is much more exclusive and gets more looks. With a supercharged Z4, you have to drive it hard to appreciate the differences from a regular Z4; with the M, you don't.
 
GP20 said:
Hold out for the M. The M is more than just the extra horsepower. It's the total package - HP, styling, LSD, hydraulic steering, quad exhausts, M-seats, M-instrument clusters, prestige, history, and many others. Not to mention you keep the warranty and free maintenance. And the M is much more exclusive and gets more looks. With a supercharged Z4, you have to drive it hard to appreciate the differences from a regular Z4; with the M, you don't.
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GP20 is on the money about this. There is no equal to an M. Ive thought about a SC for my 2.5 myself, but its not quite the same. Save your money, wait for Z4M prices to tank (they are doing that as we speak) and pick one up when the time is right..

On a side note,
I wish the last Z4s came with N54s instead of N52, twin turbos get me hot..
Although, the 200lb or so difference from the S54 and N54 means the current 3.0si with N52 has some mean handling. :driving:
 
I've been debating this exact same thing for the last year and I COMPLETELY DISAGREE with the last 2 posters on this one. Here's why...

1. This is the most important one...I think you're completely underestimating the cost of a used Z4M. Just doing a quick search and the cheapest Z4M (certified used) one I found was $44K. If that's the case then you're comparing...lets say a $30k for a supercharged 2.5 vs. $40K+, then it's completely different comparison. I paid about $22k for my 2.5. So add $8k for the SC from ESS and you're right at the 30k mark. If it would cost the same for a z4M as to supercharge my 2.5, I'd think about the M much more seriously as the LSD, steering, M seats are certainly fantastic features. Still, I would want my exact color and interior colors. If you've got exactly what you want in your 2.5 and don't want it to change, you may have a hard time find that in an M.

With that said, there are some advantages to the supercharged 2.5, particularly if it's >$10k cheaper. So...

2. Very few people other than us Z4 owners know the differences in models without looking at the badge. All of my friends thought my 2003 2.5i was a 2007 when I bought it. So while the M certainly has prestige...it'll likely only be you and a few others who notice it. Or think of it this way, race an M owner in you're supercharged 2.5 and watch his jaw drop when you beat him off the line cuz he doesn't know what under your hood :thumbsup:

3. Residual costs will be far lower.
a. As you mentioned you're insurance will be lower.
b. Your supercharged 2.5 should also get better gas mileage than a Z4M. Depending on how you drive it, it may be better (at least theoritically but unlikely). But there is an arguement that you won't rev the engine as high as you'll have more power at lower rpms.
Personally, I tihnk I'd rev it the same :D So if you're like me you'll get worse mileage, but should still be better than the M.
C. If you plan on keeping past warranty for both, the M will cost far more to maintain.

4. And this is really just from opinions I've heard but thought I'd put it out there. Contrary, to what the others have said, I've heard that you have to work the NA M much harder to get the power out of it then you do a forced induction system like a supercharged engine. The ESS system reached full boost at only 2000rpm. So I know others in our situation have opted for the SC over the M upgrade for this reason...driveability. But I'd certainly like input from someone who has had both.

5. Fun factor...My 2.5 is my first car and it's my baby. I can't trade it in! So I'm going to use it to customize, mod, learn, and have fun!!!! Installing the supercharger will be bit part of that fun personalization.

With all that said, you can't go wrong either way!!

6. Probably less nagging from the wife with the supercharger versus a new car :P
 
Brand new Z4M were sold for high 30's, low 40's a month or 2 ago. Once the newer Z4 comes out, the market will adjust used Z4M's resale values accordingly.

Insurance - when I first got my Z4M in '06, the '06 Z4M cost less than $200 extra per year to insure than my '04 3.0i. Something like $180. I spend that much on a meal on a night out with my girlfriend sometimes.

Resale value - good luck finding a buyer to take on a used supercharged car. :thumbsup:

A supercharged 2.5i beating an M in straight line? Which supercharger? A supercharged 3.0i beating an M is much more realistic.

Need of aftermarket brake-kits - if you wanna go fast with a supercharger, you better be able to stop fast too.

Hydraulic steering - the electrically assisted steering on the non-M is really one of the worst things about the car. You can't retrofit the hydraulic steering on a non-M Z4 cheaply.

LSD - all the horsepower in the world is useless if you can't put the power to the wheels.

But I'd certainly like input from someone who has had both.
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I've owned an '00 Z3 2.3i, an '03 2.5i, an '04 3.0i, and now the Z4M. Having owned the Z4M only solidified my belief that I will never be able to settle for a non-M BMW sports car. I really don't mean to look down on non-M Z4's, and I'm not an M elitst. I love the Z4's, whether it' be an 2.5i or 3.0i or an M. And I appreciate a clean, nicely modified 2.5i when I see one. I just think saying a supercharged 2.5i is superior than an M a bit of stretch. :)

Just my $0.02. Sorry about the long post. I'm bored on a Thursday night and the Mariners blow $%^@^^ :( .
 
Get a well spec'd 3.0lsi sport and if your still not happy, supercharge it! All in all, cheaper than an M (unless that "I have an M car" talk with mates is more important!! :P ) :D

http://www.esstuning.com/default.asp?c=shop&cat=93&subcat=170&subcat2=174&id=243

The sound would be awesome! :D When my warranty is up, this is what I'm planning on doing. :wink:


Mind you, if money no object, buy an M and supercharge it!! :thumbsup: http://www.esstuning.com/default.asp?c=shop&cat=93&subcat=170&subcat2=264&id=
 
GP20 said:
Brand new Z4M were sold for high 30's, low 40's a month or 2 ago. Once the newer Z4 comes out, the market will adjust used Z4M's resale values accordingly.
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SERIOUSLY!!?!? Where the heck are you finding these? I couldn't find a used one online for less than $44,000!!!! So I'd have to see a new z4m price under $40,000 to believe it :wink:

Anyways, like I mentioned, if out of pocket cost were the same for supercharged 2.5 and an M, it's a completely different arguement...one in which the M certianly wins!!!! But I'll just throw out my pesonal scenario.

I'm out of warranty next year. Let's say that's my date to SC (it is) or buy a Z4M. Even if I could get an M with all the features (color mostly) that mine has for $35k (I doubt I''ll be able too but here's to hoping!), I'd probably only get $15k or so from my trade in on my 2.5. This means I still need to put $20k in. You can supercharge for $10k. So the M is still 10K more and I'd say $10k more is about the minimum. I think it'll be closer to $15k more.

NOW...I know the SC for the 2.5 and the 3.0 is nearly identical and with few parts swaps for fitting, you can move them from one to the other. So the question is, how different is the SC for the Z4M vs. the one for the 2.5 and 3.0? What if I could supercharge my 2.5i now, then wait until I get a smoking deal a used M...AND then for a thousand bucks or so, move the SC from my 2.5 to the M...Now you're talkin!!!! :thumbsdown:
 
azroadie said:
GP20 said:
Brand new Z4M were sold for high 30's, low 40's a month or 2 ago. Once the newer Z4 comes out, the market will adjust used Z4M's resale values accordingly.
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SERIOUSLY!!?!? Where the heck are you finding these? I couldn't find a used one online for less than $44,000!!!! So I'd have to see a new z4m price under $40,000 to believe it :wink:
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Dealers were selling brand new Z4M's for $10K~$15K under the MSRP a few months ago. How do you post on the forum regularly and NOT have heard of that? :D
 
I had heard about the crazy lease deals...but selling them that cheap!!! WOW!! Now GP...is that fact or rumor?? :wink: Until I meet the guy who actually paid 40k for his new Z4M, I'm still leary. :poke:

Here's another thought...maybe better for another post. Will the value of our Z4's go up with the new Z4 release? Hell...I'll start a post on this for us as I'm curious of other opinions.

But damn you GP for make me rethink this!! And just after I bought my new exhaust system!!!! :headbang:
... :D
 
I agree with GP20. I would be very leery about buying a Zed or any vehicle with an aftermarket device like you are talking about. I am even leery about body panel changes. I would be suspicious of what the previous owner did to the car. It may indicate very hard use and undue ware and tare on the Zed in other places. If you are going to keep it and not sell it, then it is your toy and have fun. 8)

On another note, talking about resale value when the new Z4s come out. As I understand it, they will not have a real ragtop anymore. Guys like me who like having one may find there value go up slightly, because as time goes by they will be harder and harder to find a real one. :driving:
 
azroadie said:
I had heard about the crazy lease deals...but selling them that cheap!!! WOW!! Now GP...is that fact or rumor?? :wink: Until I meet the guy who actually paid 40k for his new Z4M, I'm still leary. :poke:
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It's true. And I'm surprised you don't know about this. BMW has been doing that EVERY year with the Z4, since 2003. It's not restricted to leasing. I bought my '04 3.0i with cash and got a $10k discount. I bought my '06 Z4M with cash and got a $5K discount although that's another story. You don't need to lease in order to get the huge discount.
 
Well, GP20, I'm going to test this. I'm going to the dealer today and if they'll sell me the z4M..which has everythink i want...for 40K...I'm sold! But I don't think it'll happen :D
 
azroadie said:
Well, GP20, I'm going to test this. I'm going to the dealer today and if they'll sell me the z4M..which has everythink i want...for 40K...I'm sold! But I don't think it'll happen :D
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The only worthy non-M vs Z4M.

http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=100&i=8030
 
I've seen a lot of m's with 10,000 off stickers at local dealerships, now this was a few months ago. You might have some problems getting something like that at the begining of "convertible" season :) There is one on ebay with 1300 miles for under 40K, so deals are def out there.
 
anderson said:
I've seen a lot of m's with 10,000 off stickers at local dealerships, now this was a few months ago. You might have some problems getting something like that at the begining of "convertible" season :) There is one on ebay with 1300 miles for under 40K, so deals are def out there.
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OK, I was still calling BS on this so I decided to put things to the test. I mean come on...I need to put my $$$ where my mouth is right! I looked over my finances and what I still owe on my Z. I've saved up the 10k for the supercharger so if I could get an M for $15K more, I was in. So grabbed my checkbook and headed to the dealer with the intent to buy if they'd take off $10K. :o

AND...................I made the offer and he basically laughed at me. He said at the end of the year last year, I could have gotten about $5k off sticker on stock vehicles. This time of year with new production, they won't go below sticker. Plus prices will increase in June but only by about $500. Wouldn't even get me into a used one for $40K.

And as for the one on ebay. You can't base anything of starting bid prices. That one's buy now price is $44k...even if it goes for $40k that's still $10k more than discussed earlier in this thread.

So I'm back to the arguement...add a supercharger for $10K or upgrade to an M for $20k. This arguement, I think the supercharger wins. Now get closer to $15k more for the M...I think the M's worth the extra $5k...particularly if it a newer year model and under warranty.

Still, I'll keep looking during the then next year. If I can find a used M for 35K or so, I'd surely trading mine in instead of adding the supercharger!
 
You buy convertibles in the winter. If you want an M wait a few months, let the cars sit on the lot, throw in the fact that the economy sucks and...the discounts will be back and the pre-owned market will get flooded
 
cool, i like all the input. So here is another question. I have the sport package how does that compare to the M set up suspension wise? Now take this in to consideration i don't track and i love the torqueness i just want more top end for stoplight dragin :driving: i mean i have a friend that has a s2000 and i always get him off the line but by 3rd gear he is passing me. So would i be able to get away with big brakes up front and the SC and wait until i burn the clutch up to do the clutch and suspension, possibly buying me another 6-12 months?
 
azroadie said:
Well, GP20, I'm going to test this. I'm going to the dealer today and if they'll sell me the z4M..which has everythink i want...for 40K...I'm sold! But I don't think it'll happen :D
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You're a few months too late. I think all the '07 Z4M's were sold out a few months ago.

Honestly, if you don't believe me when I say people were getting Z4M's for anywhere from $10k~$15k off the MSRP, just do a search on the forum yourself. I know one long time member got his black M-coupe for high 30k's (I won't mention his handle because I'm not sure if he's comfortable with people knowing this information). I know a few other people who got their brand new almost loaded Z4M's in the low 40's (like $42k~43k). I even read the $10k~$15K discount mentioned many times on the S2000 forum so even they know about this.

If you still wanna call b.S., it's really up to you. :wink:
 
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