Running In Service

[pvr]

There is a tolerance anyway - the "real" distance is 2000 km, which is not 1200 miles :lol:

 

[VRSteve]

So if it had the service at 1199 then that's brilliant. If it was serviced at 1201 you wouldn't touch it with a barge pole!!!

What if the car was serviced at 1150 miles but it was driven by some spoilt rich kid who couldn't give a flying f**k about the 3000rpm limit? I totally agree that correct servicing is important, but it all has +/-tolerance. Perfect history does not make a prefect car.

Precisely, and suppose someone had their running-in service done at 250 miles or 300 miles because they were going on a long trip.... is that worse than having it done at 1500 miles or 1800 miles?

If manufacturers quote 1200 miles, you can be sure that they've allowed a very wide margin for error and someone who's done, say, 2,000 miles before the running-in service will not have done irreparable harm to their engine...

Have to agree with this. What's your acceptance mileage of failure anyway? Is it ok it pops at 80k, 120k 150k? Are all the engines built to exactly the same tolerances no matter how tiny? I would think a slight difference on build would make more difference than another 1k on a running in service.

Bottom line is if it sounds ok, isn't blowing smoke and has a good service record even with the odd discrepancy then that is all you can hope for. As said there's no way of knowing how the cars been treated from new.

Just imo.

This is absolutely my point.

To dismiss a car because the running in service was at 1400 miles is stupid in the extreme. Its probably had no bearing on the engines health and how many other variables can you find that will impact the longevity of the engine but you will never know about.

Ultimately if its done within the BMW tolerance of 1200 +/- 600 then its not an issue.

Sad thing is, and I've said this before, certain idiots spread this misinformation and it makes newcomers very very wary of these cars for no good reason. Its all well and good on a Porsche forum where we all know the engines aren't built properly, but in comparison the S54 is a very reliable old lump.

 

[tomscott]

So basically if you run the car for longer than 1200 miles, you WEAR THE ENGINE EXCELSSIVELY and the engine "ages" prematurely.

The engine is most vulnerable when new and "as they get higher milage" is all well and good but once they get to 60-70k you may find the engine may be worse with bore scoring etc and essentially the likelihood of a failure is higher. 12k+ for a new engine and labour... just saying

I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole.

"EXCELSSIVELY".....wtf does that mean.

I think it was you who decided a car that had the running in service at 1400 miles wasn't worth buying.
What evidence do you have for the above statement, or are you just spreading misinformation on the back of your own assumptions??

Oh god heres the typo police. Sorry :telloff: ...

The car in question was at 1500 miles and that is 25% over the guidelines so why take the risk? Maybe you should read my other findings of said vehicle.

Im not really bothered what you deem acceptable. I dont think that servicing on time is too much to ask and if anything if the first service isn't hit on time then its not unreasonable to think that there is negligence afterward. If thats something you would take a risk with then fine, I owned an M for 3 years put plenty of miles on it and had no issues probably because it was a decent one a well serviced.

 

[tomscott]

Precisely, and suppose someone had their running-in service done at 250 miles or 300 miles because they were going on a long trip.... is that worse than having it done at 1500 miles or 1800 miles?

If manufacturers quote 1200 miles, you can be sure that they've allowed a very wide margin for error and someone who's done, say, 2,000 miles before the running-in service will not have done irreparable harm to their engine...

Have to agree with this. What's your acceptance mileage of failure anyway? Is it ok it pops at 80k, 120k 150k? Are all the engines built to exactly the same tolerances no matter how tiny? I would think a slight difference on build would make more difference than another 1k on a running in service.

Bottom line is if it sounds ok, isn't blowing smoke and has a good service record even with the odd discrepancy then that is all you can hope for. As said there's no way of knowing how the cars been treated from new.

Just imo.

This is absolutely my point.

To dismiss a car because the running in service was at 1400 miles is stupid in the extreme. Its probably had no bearing on the engines health and how many other variables can you find that will impact the longevity of the engine but you will never know about.

Ultimately if its done within the BMW tolerance of 1200 +/- 600 then its not an issue.

Sad thing is, and I've said this before, certain idiots spread this misinformation and it makes newcomers very very wary of these cars for no good reason. Its all well and good on a Porsche forum where we all know the engines aren't built properly, but in comparison the S54 is a very reliable old lump.

Yes I am an idiot and have no idea

Im sure your contributions across the forum are very astute.

 

[Babw]

Well that was a good laugh for a Monday evening. Forum hyperbole and conjecture at it's best.

I went down to the M factory a couple of years ago with a friend who has a big composite technology firm and he had a meeting with some of the bosses etc. I wondered around asked some of the engineers this exact question having owned a few M cars in the family some from new.

They leave the factory with fully synthetic oil. Not Joe Gibbs running oil, mineral oil etc. The M engines are hand assembled but factory line built. These are not 50k honed bore blueprinted engines as much as the die hard M fans would like to think.

The reason they ask for a 1200 mile running in is because they know a lot of users won't follow the instructions of varying engine speeds, not accelerating harshly etc during the running in period. This causes heat build up and although the tolerances are pretty good as most factory built engines are these days there may still be expansion causing increased wear in the early periods. The 1200 mile service is purely precautionary due to the lowest common denominator who won't follow the guidelines. If you follow the guidelines and the engine beds in well there is no need for an oil change but for the manufacturer it's simple precautionary guidance.

Also random engines are picked from the factory and run on an engine dyno to pretty much full engine speed but not for enough time to cause full thermal expansion so something like 1/5 M engines will have been ragged before you've even driven your new M car :wink:

 

[mr wilks]

Also random engines are picked from the factory and run on an engine dyno to pretty much full engine speed but not for enough time to cause full thermal expansion so something like 1/5 M engines will have been ragged before you've even driven your new M car :wink:

Ooooooh fastforward to forum ///Meltdown
Wormcan well & truly blown open

 

[Babw]

Also random engines are picked from the factory and run on an engine dyno to pretty much full engine speed but not for enough time to cause full thermal expansion so something like 1/5 M engines will have been ragged before you've even driven your new M car :wink:

Ooooooh fastforward to forum ///Meltdown
Wormcan well & truly blown open

Truth hurts as they say. :lol:

I emailed my engine builder when I was reading this earlier, I'm speccing a 950-1000bhp very cool and expensive build on my R35 GTR. It will be run in on Joe Gibbs running in oil for 200-300 miles and he would never ever let the customer do the running in!

 

[ocrx8]

Just checked mine - it was done at 1,172 miles, phew! I can now sleep soundly.

 

[Ewazix]

Well that was a good laugh for a Monday evening. Forum hyperbole and conjecture at it's best.

I went down to the M factory a couple of years ago with a friend who has a big composite technology firm and he had a meeting with some of the bosses etc. I wondered around asked some of the engineers this exact question having owned a few M cars in the family some from new.

They leave the factory with fully synthetic oil. Not Joe Gibbs running oil, mineral oil etc. The M engines are hand assembled but factory line built. These are not 50k honed bore blueprinted engines as much as the die hard M fans would like to think.

The reason they ask for a 1200 mile running in is because they know a lot of users won't follow the instructions of varying engine speeds, not accelerating harshly etc during the running in period. This causes heat build up and although the tolerances are pretty good as most factory built engines are these days there may still be expansion causing increased wear in the early periods. The 1200 mile service is purely precautionary due to the lowest common denominator who won't follow the guidelines. If you follow the guidelines and the engine beds in well there is no need for an oil change but for the manufacturer it's simple precautionary guidance.

Also random engines are picked from the factory and run on an engine dyno to pretty much full engine speed but not for enough time to cause full thermal expansion so something like 1/5 M engines will have been ragged before you've even driven your new M car :wink:

Sanity at last :hattip:

 

[Smartbear]

Just checked mine - it was done at 1,172 miles, phew! I can now sleep soundly.

Maybe, but was your car one of the 1 in 5 that's been larraped on the factory floor?
Rob

 

[Ewazix]

Just checked mine - it was done at 1,172 miles, phew! I can now sleep soundly.

Unsaleable mate, virtually a scrapper being left so tight from insufficient running in, it's a seizure time-bomb waiting to go off :wink:

 

[markos]

Everyone is entitled to buy or reject a car based on the exact spec/conditon that they're after, but I'd never reject a car purely because the RI service was done at 1500 miles. 3000 miles then I might think about it, or if it was never done then that would put me off but not if it was within several hundred miles. My M3 was done at around 870 miles (sold at 79k miles), my Z4M at 1305 (sold with 63k miles, with BMW being the first owner).

 

[Fishy Dave]

They leave the factory with fully synthetic oil. Not Joe Gibbs running oil, mineral oil etc.

The reason they ask for a 1200 mile running in is because they know a lot of users won't follow the instructions of varying engine speeds, not accelerating harshly etc during the running in period. This causes heat build up and although the tolerances are pretty good as most factory built engines are these days there may still be expansion causing increased wear in the early periods. The 1200 mile service is purely precautionary due to the lowest common denominator who won't follow the guidelines. If you follow the guidelines and the engine beds in well there is no need for an oil change but for the manufacturer it's simple precautionary guidance.

Excellent, thank you, that's exactly what I was hoping to hear. Do you think the fluids are exactly the same oils as they are then re-filled with at the 1200/2000/3000 mile service? :wink:

 

[VRSteve]

Have to agree with this. What's your acceptance mileage of failure anyway? Is it ok it pops at 80k, 120k 150k? Are all the engines built to exactly the same tolerances no matter how tiny? I would think a slight difference on build would make more difference than another 1k on a running in service.

Bottom line is if it sounds ok, isn't blowing smoke and has a good service record even with the odd discrepancy then that is all you can hope for. As said there's no way of knowing how the cars been treated from new.

Just imo.

This is absolutely my point.

To dismiss a car because the running in service was at 1400 miles is stupid in the extreme. Its probably had no bearing on the engines health and how many other variables can you find that will impact the longevity of the engine but you will never know about.

Ultimately if its done within the BMW tolerance of 1200 +/- 600 then its not an issue.

Sad thing is, and I've said this before, certain idiots spread this misinformation and it makes newcomers very very wary of these cars for no good reason. Its all well and good on a Porsche forum where we all know the engines aren't built properly, but in comparison the S54 is a very reliable old lump.

Yes I am an idiot and have no idea

Im sure your contributions across the forum are very astute.

You've provided no evidence, and the evidence that has been provided by others contradicts your opinions.

You're right, you have NO idea.

 

[breezer]

This has been fun.

One question - why is it desirable to have BMW as a first owner? To me that says press car or demonstrator...and I don't know about you, but would you want a car driven sideways on the redline from cold by journos? As for demonstrators, I'm yet to find a salesman who tells me to be more careful and have had many egg me on from cold.

 

[mmm-five]

Just for reference, mine was done at 1205 and is stamped in the book.

My 2nd one is not stamped anywhere, so I don't know when it was (other than at around 24,000 miles). But I know that I ran the new engine in again, despite the dealer saying there was no need.

 

[Babw]

I think the point with the bedding in/running in service is that doing it after 1200 mile of bedding in is what BMW advice, however just because the car has done 1200 miles doesn't mean it's been bedded in. I'm sure some overly protective owners may have driven 1200 miles without ever actually bedding in the engine, never getting adequate thermal expansion and the wear needed to mate the surface adequately.

They then go ahead have the oil change and drive significantly harder when the engine actually beds in which might lead to contaminated oil and they won't get this changed for another 1/2 years. I look at cars that have had the running in service at 800 miles and think was that actually enough mileage to run it in?

 

[ocrx8]

This has been fun.

One question - why is it desirable to have BMW as a first owner? To me that says press car or demonstrator...and I don't know about you, but would you want a car driven sideways on the redline from cold by journos? As for demonstrators, I'm yet to find a salesman who tells me to be more careful and have had many egg me on from cold.

Could also be an ex-management car. Not that this means it would have been driven carefully as more than likely they'll get a new car every six months.

 

[PerryGunn]

Another interesting point here . . . . all very worrying. I guess I'll go back and read what Perry said . . . .

I wouldn't... e's a lyin' barsteward...ya can't believe a word 'e says guv :wink:

 

[paulgs1000]

I think the point with the bedding in/running in service is that doing it after 1200 mile of bedding in is what BMW advice, however just because the car has done 1200 miles doesn't mean it's been bedded in. I'm sure some overly protective owners may have driven 1200 miles without ever actually bedding in the engine, never getting adequate thermal expansion and the wear needed to mate the surface adequately.

They then go ahead have the oil change and drive significantly harder when the engine actually beds in which might lead to contaminated oil and they won't get this changed for another 1/2 years. I look at cars that have had the running in service at 800 miles and think was that actually enough mileage to run it in?

This is a very pertinent point and something else to worry about . . . .think I'll just go back and read john-E89 . . . .

"Bottom line is if it sounds ok, isn't blowing smoke and has a good service record even with the odd discrepancy then that is all you can hope for. As said there's no way of knowing how the cars been treated from new".