RTABs

MikeMcG

Member
Pretty sure the 'M' needs new RTAB's, I've tried various different tyre pressures and had the car hunter aligned but I still feel like the car is unsteady at motorway speeds and needs constant steering correction to keep it dead straight.

Whilst I'm at it, are there any other bushes the garage should do, rear anti roll bar bushes?
 
ARB bushes, inner and outer wishbone and camber arm balljoints/bushes, diff mounts etc you could replace the lot, or just do the RTAB's and find your problem is resolved.
 
Yeah I see your point. May just opt for the RTABs then for now and hope that resolves it. Was just wondering if there was anything else that was worth doing that was also linked to the same trailing arm as the RTAB and worth doing whilst the trailing arm was hanging down.
 
Good way to tell if your rtab are causing the problem is whether the rear steers under acceleration, mine did replaced with rtab limiters and good since! Remember you will likely need an alignment after replacing.
 
Hear hear..
I have no play anywhere, but I can't call mine stable.
I just think a lot has to do with the cars setup and very quick steering.
Sometimes miss my Fiat Coupe in this instance
(BOTH involving and steady)
 
Argenta said:
Hear hear..
I have no play anywhere, but I can't call mine stable.
I just think a lot has to do with the cars setup and very quick steering.
Sometimes miss my Fiat Coupe in this instance
(BOTH involving and steady)

I'd say mine is very stable right up to the top of 6th, and I've driven a few cars at those sorts of speeds to compare with.
Whilst you might not have any play doesn't necessarily mean some of the bushes aren't past their best or that something else is not slightly amiss.
 
Install some RTAB limiters as well.
I replaced my RTABs but unstable feeling was not solved, installed limiters -> succes!
My experience is that rear toe alignment is also quite critical, but you mention this should be ok so yeah, limiters.
 
Argenta said:
Sometimes miss my Fiat Coupe in this instance
(BOTH involving and steady)

Hi Argenta,

Are you registered on fccuk? I've had a couple of 20VT's in the past, great cars, first got me into trackdays and sprinting. Sorry for the O/T.

Guessing I should check my RTABs as a matter of course as my car has passed 40k?
 
Yes FishyDave! Per from that grand forum. :) Think we even met in Italy in 2006..?
I WAS wondering if it was you but I suppose there could be more.. So we've gone up the Bangle ladder I suppose? :)
(Wouldn't have got the M unless the garage burned down in december. Bummer.)

Whats the best source for these RTAB limiter's..?
 
I run Turner Motorsport ones like most do I think, but there are a couple of other options out there I believe. I must say I didn't try going up to those sorts of speeds without them (not to say the car wouldn't have been fine without them though), it was one of the first mods I did to the car as I know how beneficial they are since running an m3 previously. I polybushed my RTABs on the m3 to start with and hated it, OEM + limiter is the way to go IMO.
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-964-turner-motorsport-rear-trailing-arm-bushing-limiter-kit-rtab-shim-kit.aspx
 
the turners are most expensive but i like the quality of the kit. i use them and I'm very happy with it.
 
Thanks Tom, I will pick up a set of these and the M3 bushes linked to on the Turner site and change these over the winter.

Hi Per, small world! Yes, I remember, it was in the car park at Modena iirc? Sorry to hear about the fire :(
 
Fishy Dave said:
Thanks Tom, I will pick up a set of these and the M3 bushes linked to on the Turner site and change these over the winter.

Hi Per, small world! Yes, I remember, it was in the car park at Modena iirc? Sorry to hear about the fire :(

Dave, I'm sure you saw, but Turner is in the US. By the time you faff around importing them etc and the fact you are in bath I would recommend driving an hour to lydney and let these guys install them for you. They generally have them in stock also. Top place to take these cars to... Call them, don't bother trying to email or order on their site, nothing works lol.
http://www.simpsonmotorsport.co.uk/bmw-tuning/shop.asp?id=67&pid=67&cid=5&pcid=12
 
Have a read of this page and look at the "Which bushing is best for you?" table - http://www.rogueengineering.com/rogue/S_BUSH/RE_RTAB.html

I went for the black bushes, no need for limiters and works out cheaper than new OEM bushes and limiters. Win win surely.

Not difference in ride or noise.
 
Personally I found there to be a huge difference in how the car behaves near the limit between polybushed and OEM+limiter. I got rid of my polybushes after a couple of months I was that unhappy with how the car felt. (These were powerflex not rouge but the principle of the physics remains the same)
 
How did it feel different out of interest? I don't track my car so can't comment about how it feels on the limit.

For the road I'm very happy with it and car feels a lot more planted, but obviously that's comparing old vs new, not poly vs OEM plus limiters.
 
gwatson said:
How did it feel different out of interest? I don't track my car so can't comment about how it feels on the limit.

For the road I'm very happy with it and car feels a lot more planted, but obviously that's comparing old vs new, not poly vs OEM plus limiters.

It's a difficult one to explain but I found a loss in confidence in the car in high speed cornering, it didn't feel as predictable let's say.
The part I've highlighted in bold below perhaps gives a qualified explanation of what I was feeling, taken from Vorshlag website.

"In the Rear Trailing Arm Bushing (RTAB) location on the rear suspension of an E36 or E46 BMW the bushing has to pivot on two axis. Unlike other suspension bushing locations that only have one axis of rotation, swapping in excessively stiff replacement bushings using materials such as Polyurethane can and will cause suspension bind. The stock rubber M3 bushing is fairly compliant and effective when brand new but wears quickly over time, and doesn't cope with the added forces from race tires in perfect condition. Added wear adds excessive toe change under suspension movement, acceleration and braking. It is compounded greatly with additional power and grip from racing compound tires. If your stock RTABs have more than 20K miles and/or you've used the car for more than a season of racing, they are likely shot.

We've seen some significant toe change on some cars with stock (and/or worn) RTABs - usually evidenced by toe induced tire rub where there shouldn't have been any. These Limiters do work - they limit the deflection of the rubber mounts but they do not add additional noise or bind, and will extend the life of a rubber RTAB bushing considerably.

Many racers just blindly install polyurethane into this and all bushing locations as a "fix" for a worn OEM rubber RTAB bushing. Polyurethane is a bad choice for a bushing material if it has to deflect - such as in a multi-axis suspension bushing location like the RTAB. Rubber bushings + limiters or a complete replacement with a custom steel spherical bearing are the only two textbook choices for this location. We cannot count the number of times we have seen RTAB or front LCA failures on BMWs that were using poly in these areas - an expensive repair and dangerous racing situation. At the very least poly will add bind during significant suspension movement, and this can make the handling feel odd (unexplained oversteer) as well as add significant stress to the suspension-to-chassis mounts (which is how they can fail over time).

That said, some folks with fully track prepared race BMWs have had OK results with polyurethane RTABs. This is due to the much higher spring rates and smoothness of tracks they tend to run with - higher spring rates and smooth tracks limit suspension travel, and thus limits the potential for bind from a polyurethane bushing at this bushing location. So even though you may hear good results from one racer, it doesn't necessarily mean that poly RTABs are the right choice for you. If you have a street car or dual purpose BMW you should always stick with OEM bushings and RTAB limiters, and even many race prepped BMWs use this setup with excellent results."
 
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