Roof issue - Fixed!

[Karlos123]

Hi fellow Zedders,

I have a roof issue and have been trying to fix this on and off for a while

Here’s the story….

One day the roof would not go up, and I had the red flashing light

Removed motor from drain/storage area and it was totally bone dry and looked brand new.

Relocated roof motor to boot.

Fluid topped up

Shelf microswitch bypassed

Current symptoms- Press button, windows drop and nothing happens, no noise from either motor, but if I manually wind it tighter towards the windscreen, then it works perfectly a few times (roof goes down and up like a Swiss watch!) but it then does the same again eventually (windows drop and nothing) its like its out of sync. Its like its not winding in enough to the windscreen when the roof goes up. I have disconnected the battery for 30 mins and reset the windows, but it always happens. When the roof works its great, nice and smooth. Sometimes the roof will go down but not all the way, it gets through 95% of the cycle but the windows wont go up and red flashing light comes on. The odd thing is that the roof occasionaly works perfectly, it will work 4/5 times and then play up.

I fitted a Gaptech a few years back but did a very thorough job on it, Im a soldering and heatshrink kinda guy! (no scotchlocks).

If anyone has any suggestions I would be very grateful! I am always keen to try and fix things myself, but I think I have reached my limit with this now.

Just thought I would put it out there to you guys.

Thanks in advance!!

Karl

 

[enuff_zed]

I would think if it used to work and you haven't touched anything on the front then it may be something as simple as the hooks and their recptacles on the windscreen frame need cleaning out and a light smear of grease applied to ensure they move more freely.
Try that first.

How did you cure the inital issue with it not going up? Once you'd moved the motor how did you get it working again?

 

[Karlos123]

Thanks for the reply.

I forgot to say in my origional post that yesterday it was working ok but then the roof went down but didnt follow the cycle all the way through, ie windows didnt go back up again, and had the flashing red light, so wouldnt go back up again. I fitted a GapTech a few years ago and did a very through job of it (no scotchlocks- I soldered it).

I will try that and check the hooks over/clean, grease etc.. thanks for that suggestion.

I got the roof working again by manually closing it and once its closed tight enough at the frame, it will open again, I wonder if its a sensor there.

Im baffled by it all, it sometimes wont go down, and sometimes it wont go up, if it was dodgy wiring surely it would sometimes stop half way through the cycle?

 

[enuff_zed]

Thanks for the reply.

I forgot to say in my origional post that yesterday it was working ok but then the roof went down but didnt follow the cycle all the way through, ie windows didnt go back up again, and had the flashing red light, so wouldnt go back up again. I fitted a GapTech a few years ago and did a very through job of it (no scotchlocks- I soldered it).

I will try that and check the hooks over/clean, grease etc.. thanks for that suggestion.

I got the roof working again by manually closing it and once its closed tight enough at the frame, it will open again, I wonder if its a sensor there.

Im baffled by it all, it sometimes wont go down, and sometimes it wont go up, if it was dodgy wiring surely it would sometimes stop half way through the cycle?

Regardless of the quality of your connections, I would suggest that until you rule out the Gaptech you'll never know. I think I would be tempted to disconnect that first.

 

[Karlos123]

Ok, many thanks for your thoughts on this, I will disconnect the Gaptech to rule that out as a potential problem.

Thanks again enuff-zed.

 

[enuff_zed]

Ok, many thanks for your thoughts on this, I will disconnect the Gaptech to rule that out as a potential problem.

Thanks again enuff-zed.

No worries. Let's hope step 1 fixes it.

 

[Karlos123]

Hi there, quick update… I removed the Gaptech and it’s not made any difference, although sometimes the roof works ok for a few cycles and then stops. It’s so odd! I had it working ok today and then when I tried it after work the roof/latch motor made a noise and then nothing happened and red light started flashing again.

I checked the wiring loom and that looks ok, I removed the fabric cover and the wires look ok where it bends/attaches to the roof frame.

Would Creator scanning tool read the codes for the roof? I’m thinking of getting a scanning tool but don’t have a laptop, and creator is handheld all in one. Would that read the codes ok?

Appreciate any advice you could provide!

 

[Zedebee]

I checked the wiring loom and that looks ok, I removed the fabric cover and the wires look ok where it bends/attaches to the roof frame.

It’s a tough one to diagnose. When I had a dodgy roof I traced it back to the red wire in the loom. The loom and individual wires looked OK from the outside, but the wire itself had broken inside the sheath. This had the effect of holding the two pieces of wire in contact some of the time causing the roof to work part-cycle only. You really need to test continuity in each of the wires, that red wire particularly. Easy to fix if you can find the problem.

 

[Karlos123]

Thanks Zedebee, appreciate the reply, ok cool… I will dig out the multimeter and check each wire, I just assumed they looked ok but as you say looks can be deceiving. When it actually works it operates perfectly, mechanically it seems fine, which does make me think it’s an electrical issue.

Thanks again for your advice!

 

[enuff_zed]

Have you tried a replacement control module

 

[Karlos123]

Hi Enuffzed, I haven’t, and it was something that I have considered, they don’t look too expensive, and might be worth a punt. I will give the loom and good check over, and if that looks good then I think I will swap the control module, it has to be an electrical issue as when it’s working its great, the motors are quiet and nothing mechanical sounds stressed, and as it’s intermittent it must be wiring or the control module.

Thanks for your comment/advice.

 

[enuff_zed]

Hi Enuffzed, I haven’t, and it was something that I have considered, they don’t look too expensive, and might be worth a punt. I will give the loom and good check over, and if that looks good then I think I will swap the control module, it has to be an electrical issue as when it’s working its great, the motors are quiet and nothing mechanical sounds stressed, and as it’s intermittent it must be wiring or the control module.

Thanks for your comment/advice.

Depending where you are, there are a few of us dotted about the UK who have spare modules.
If you happened to be near me I'd happily let you swap one in as a diagnostic check.

Edit: Am I right in thinking Hampshire? I'm heading to Southampton on the 24th April if that's any help?

 

[Karlos123]

Hi enuff-zed, so sorry! I have only just seen your last message from Friday. I actually ordered an ECU on Friday but thanks so much for the offer of the use of your spare one, I have bought one from Quarry Motors which is claimed to be fully working and tested (£32). It will be here tomorrow and I am looking forward to seeing if that fixes the issue. I am in Basingstoke and am very fortunate to be near RBM in Hook, but I do enjoy spannering and trying to fix things myself. so if this doesnt fix the issue then I will bite the bullet and get them to look at it. Thanks for the offer of swinging by with an ECU! I will let you know how I get on, fingers crossed. Funnily enough, I had roof issues on an E36 I owned in 2006, I spent ages trying to fix it, with lots of swearing and head scratching, I eventually bought a roof ECU from Quarry Motors, and I will never forget the feeling of pressing the button and watching the roof move, I danced around the car punching the air with joy! hopefully I will be dancing again soon. :rofl:

Thanks again for your help/advice

 

[enuff_zed]

Hi enuff-zed, so sorry! I have only just seen your last message from Friday. I actually ordered an ECU on Friday but thanks so much for the offer of the use of your spare one, I have bought one from Quarry Motors which is claimed to be fully working and tested (£32). It will be here tomorrow and I am looking forward to seeing if that fixes the issue. I am in Basingstoke and am very fortunate to be near RBM in Hook, but I do enjoy spannering and trying to fix things myself. so if this doesnt fix the issue then I will bite the bullet and get them to look at it. Thanks for the offer of swinging by with an ECU! I will let you know how I get on, fingers crossed. Funnily enough, I had roof issues on an E36 I owned in 2006, I spent ages trying to fix it, with lots of swearing and head scratching, I eventually bought a roof ECU from Quarry Motors, and I will never forget the feeling of pressing the button and watching the roof move, I danced around the car punching the air with joy! hopefully I will be dancing again soon. :rofl:

Thanks again for your help/advice

No problem. I assume you know how to get at the module? If you have smallish hands you can pop the grill off behind the passenger seat and get at it through there.

 

[Karlos123]

Hi enuff-zed, so sorry! I have only just seen your last message from Friday. I actually ordered an ECU on Friday but thanks so much for the offer of the use of your spare one, I have bought one from Quarry Motors which is claimed to be fully working and tested (£32). It will be here tomorrow and I am looking forward to seeing if that fixes the issue. I am in Basingstoke and am very fortunate to be near RBM in Hook, but I do enjoy spannering and trying to fix things myself. so if this doesnt fix the issue then I will bite the bullet and get them to look at it. Thanks for the offer of swinging by with an ECU! I will let you know how I get on, fingers crossed. Funnily enough, I had roof issues on an E36 I owned in 2006, I spent ages trying to fix it, with lots of swearing and head scratching, I eventually bought a roof ECU from Quarry Motors, and I will never forget the feeling of pressing the button and watching the roof move, I danced around the car punching the air with joy! hopefully I will be dancing again soon. :rofl:

Thanks again for your help/advice

No problem. I assume you know how to get at the module? If you have smallish hands you can pop the grill off behind the passenger seat and get at it through there.

Yes, I have already accessed the module through the grill, looks pretty straight forward, although a bit tight in there, should be ok. Thanks again.

 

[enuff_zed]

Hi enuff-zed, so sorry! I have only just seen your last message from Friday. I actually ordered an ECU on Friday but thanks so much for the offer of the use of your spare one, I have bought one from Quarry Motors which is claimed to be fully working and tested (£32). It will be here tomorrow and I am looking forward to seeing if that fixes the issue. I am in Basingstoke and am very fortunate to be near RBM in Hook, but I do enjoy spannering and trying to fix things myself. so if this doesnt fix the issue then I will bite the bullet and get them to look at it. Thanks for the offer of swinging by with an ECU! I will let you know how I get on, fingers crossed. Funnily enough, I had roof issues on an E36 I owned in 2006, I spent ages trying to fix it, with lots of swearing and head scratching, I eventually bought a roof ECU from Quarry Motors, and I will never forget the feeling of pressing the button and watching the roof move, I danced around the car punching the air with joy! hopefully I will be dancing again soon. :rofl:

Thanks again for your help/advice

No problem. I assume you know how to get at the module? If you have smallish hands you can pop the grill off behind the passenger seat and get at it through there.

Yes, I have already accessed the module through the grill, looks pretty straight forward, although a bit tight in there, should be ok. Thanks again.

Worst bit is the nut is plastic, so if you drop it you can't hoick it out with a magnet.

 

[Karlos123]

Tried a replacement roof module but its still playing up, so its not that.

The saga continues...

Roof goes back with a push 'sometimes' (had to release latches manually), roof folds down and the latches wont lock in place (supposed to close in down position), then press button... roof goes up but it wont latch and lock in place, it just stops, and I have to close it manually.

Sometimes I press the down button and nothing happens/no lights, sometimes the windows will drop and nothing else happens but red light flashes, its so inconsistant. Think I need to check wiring loom again, and the roof open/closed hall sensors.

Will keep plugging away!!!

Getting close to handing it over to RBM in Hook.

 

[Number5]

I'd look towards one of the sensors on the passenger claw. I've seen these over-ride the stop point before. If thats out of synch, it will be telling the roof ECU that the claw is already in a locked position when it actually isnt.
Unfortunately, you'll have to: -
1) stop the roof half open,
2) remove the front cowl panel ( inc the two key screws on the side of that cowl)
3) peel back the canvas from the front of the roof, far enough to ...
4) Remove the foam inserts above the claw
Then you can see the position of the sensor and re-fit it accordingly.

This is the sensor on top of the claw


Here you can see the open and closed sensors at each end. Sometimes the worm drive pops the trigger tab beyond the end stop. Open it and you'll work it out

 

[Karlos123]

I'd look towards one of the sensors on the passenger claw. I've seen these over-ride the stop point before. If thats out of synch, it will be telling the roof ECU that the claw is already in a locked position when it actually isnt.
Unfortunately, you'll have to: -
1) stop the roof half open,
2) remove the front cowl panel ( inc the two key screws on the side of that cowl)
3) peel back the canvas from the front of the roof, far enough to ...
4) Remove the foam inserts above the claw
Then you can see the position of the sensor and re-fit it accordingly.

This is the sensor on top of the claw
IMG_0852.jpeg

Here you can see the open and closed sensors at each end. Sometimes the worm drive pops the trigger tab beyond the end stop. Open it and you'll work it out
IMG_0853.jpeg

Number5, you are a legend! thanks so much for that info/instructions and photos, that is so helpful. I will give that a go at the weekend and see if that could be the issue, that does all make sense. It sounds very likely that it could be the issue, my roof operates fine, its just the latches that arent operating properly now.

Thanks again! I really appeciate it, I wll let you know how I get on at the weekend (weather permitting).

 

[Karlos123]

UPDATE- still no joy!

I have checked out the hall sensors at the front of the roof, but they both looked fine, I did adjust them but it didnt do anything. Thanks for the suggestion Number5, was hoping that would be the issue as a nice easy fix.

I bought a Creator 310 at the weekend, and it flagged up these codes...

40 Drive, cowl panel, current too high when opening safety catch
1F Switch, cowl panel locked, short circuit to ground
22 Switch, cowl panel unlocked, short circuit to ground

I then cleared these and checked the wiring harness over, I cant see any breaks but there are some wires that looked pinched. I wiggled the wiring about and massaged it all, then tried the roof and whilst it didnt go through a full cycle it did perform better! the latches worked when it folded down, it hasnt done that for a while, and I eventually saw them work and latch the roof to the windscreen, but then it was the same old flashing red light syndrome when I tried to put the roof down again.

I then plugged in the Creator 310 and the following codes came up..

44 Drive, cowl panel open circuit.
40 Drive, cowl panel, current too high when opening safety catch.
43 Drive, cowel panel, open circuit.

I have googled these codes and people with similar codes on the E85 (and on the E46), do seem to point towards a break in the wiring in the harness. I will dig out my multimeter and check for continuity. - will keep you posted!!

Thanks again to everyone who has replied to my messages with advice/suggestions, I do appreciate it!

Surely it has to be a dodgy wire/s in the harness!!! fingers crossed its that!