Roof fault

[flybobbie]

Well i have entered the twilight zone.
Came home tonight with roof open. Come to close, boot lifted, roof up, boot closed but stopped with 5mm odd to go.
And that was it, came up roof fault on idrive.
Played with the buttons and it finally closed.
So cycled and roof stowed.
Then only boot would open and then nothing. Can only close the boot.

So put two covers over it for now.
And ordered a Foxwell obd reader.
The laptop readers and bluetooth readers i have are complete waste of money and time.

My first thought is that it's the boot tray hall switch that is at fault.
But i'm sort of sure the idrive would state that it is not locked from past experience.

 

[Smartbear]

Hi, no movement possible with boot partition fault :?

Rob

 

[flybobbie]

Thanks for that, i think my next step is to read and print off as much info from this site as i can.
I'm getting the red roof symbol.
Looks like the motorbike is coming out to play.

 

[markplant]

Dietcokeman did a lot of good work with the e89 roof, have a look for his thread I know he has fixed a few for others as well, but the price of the sensor/switches has gone up a lot from memory

 

[flybobbie]

Yes cheapest so far is £175.
If it is the usual culprit i have nothing to lose to try and reverse engineer the switch first and if it is cracked, try to find out why.
To go from £15 to £175 is criminal.
I bet they are made in Italy.

I seem to remember seeing the same cylinders and sensors used on high end Italian cars and the switches were still quite cheap.
That is where i have seen these, a guy on YT named Tavaris was rebuilding a Lambo and he had some wiring burnt to a microswitch and the cylinder and switch were the same as on the Z4.

 

[markplant]

Yes cheapest so far is £175.
If it is the usual culprit i have nothing to lose to try and reverse engineer the switch first and if it is cracked, try to find out why.
To go from £15 to £175 is criminal.
I bet they are made in Italy.

I seem to remember seeing the same cylinders and sensors used on high end Italian cars and the switches were still quite cheap.
That is where i have seen these, a guy on YT named Tavaris was rebuilding a Lambo and he had some wiring burnt to a microswitch and the cylinder and switch were the same as on the Z4.

We seem to watch the same stuff on you tube as well

 

[flybobbie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROikp4GrZI&list=PLrvMJaD0-Pucbcer_w_wLYYE3o2X3GecT&index=4

Look at 16:10

And a later video he looks in more detail.
I just need to find other links i had to Lambo spare parts.

 

[flybobbie]

This interesting as well, looks very similar cylinder and micro switches.
https://roofmotors.co.uk/ford-focus-cc-convertible-cabriolet-individual-hydraulic-rams-20

I will pop into the local Ford dealer and find out the price of their Hall switches.

 

[Smartbear]

This interesting as well, looks very similar cylinder and micro switches.
https://roofmotors.co.uk/ford-focus-cc-convertible-cabriolet-individual-hydraulic-rams-20

I will pop into the local Ford dealer and find out the price of their Hall switches.

Hi, this might help with trouble shooting :?

Rob

 

[flybobbie]

Been to Ford they seem to use similar switches, price £138 for a pair for the Ford Focus Cabrio.
Also seen Audi switches look the same.
The boot lid will open and close, but that's it.
The problem now is to get the roof shell to unlock as it's not being told to unlock.
I can dump the pressure at the pump using Allen keys and could manually lift the roof over.
There is the possibility of detaching the roof shell motor through the ski hatch, but might involve damaging the roof lining.
There is some talk of that in the repair manual.

 

[flybobbie]

Hi, no movement possible with boot partition fault :?
0CC55029-0297-4465-A6EC-7DF39C8960AF.png
Rob

I moved the partition up and it's warning came up, so i assume it's hall switch is working.
Plus fault warning only comes up engine running and not with engine off when i cycle the buttons.

 

[Smartbear]

Hi, no movement possible with boot partition fault :?
0CC55029-0297-4465-A6EC-7DF39C8960AF.png
Rob

I moved the partition up and it's warning came up, so i assume it's hall switch is working.
Plus fault warning only comes up engine running and not with engine off when i cycle the buttons.

So your roof operates ok with the engine off, but doesn’t work with it running?
I’ve not heard of that before :?
Rob

 

[flybobbie]

No, only boot will lift with roof stuck in boot area stowed. The words roof fault only appear if engine is running.
And the fault doesn't remain on the idrive screen.
I'm going to pick up a small cylinder with two hall switches next week from a local breakers, £25.
These switches seems common among a range of vehicles, this being off a Mitsubishi.
Also have a Foxwell reader on order.

 

[Smartbear]

No, only boot will lift with roof stuck in boot area stowed. The words roof fault only appear if engine is running.
And the fault doesn't remain on the idrive screen.
I'm going to pick up a small cylinder with two hall switches next week from a local breakers, £25.
These switches seems common among a range of vehicles, this being off a Mitsubishi.
Also have a Foxwell reader on order.

Hi, not sure if you have this? It maybe useful in diagnosing the issue
http://www.eastpazscca.org/downloads/forum-5.pdf
Rob

 

[flybobbie]

Yes seen that thanks.
And seen quite an extensive discussion on a German forum.

This last operation of the roof has been the first time for a few weeks since i cleaned the car.
I did drive through quite a flood a few weeks ago, i'm wondering if the outside air temperature sensor, on the lower left bumper has got contaminated. Next time in car in will check to see if the outside temp. is reading correct.
Probably not a problem as the boot lifts then everything stops, so it seems the ram micro not telling the system the boot is open.

Main problem is to unlock the roof module so it can be physically lifted up to get at any micros.
Might have to strip out all the trim between the hoops.
Had the car 7 years and other than one lose connector the roof has been faultless.

 

[flybobbie]

Waiting for a code reader to arrive.
Temperature is normal.

But have discovered that the roof shell is unlocked when boot opens, so i need to prop up boot, pull the pump fuse, dump the pressure at the valve block with Allen key and manually lift the roof, so that i can get at the limit Hall switches.
When i press the open button, a relay can be heard clicking and clicks with every press of the open button, even with boot lid up and all the interior lights dim momentarily as it clicks. So something is pulling power but not operating.
The boot opens and it all stops without any error warnings, unless i start engine, i assume it thinks i am about to drive off with the boot open and then says roof fault.

I need to check voltages next and check that all three solenoids on the valve are operating using multimeter. Car starts no problem.

 

[Adil_3]

Upon first reading this i noticed you said you mashed around with the buttons and it seemed to have closed once you got home and one part of the operation works and the other doesnt. Ive had a roof motor and had an issue similar to where the roof would get stuck half way but would close just fine. Just a quick check and its a cheap one at that,

Where the roof motor is located in the boot are two orange relays. One relay controls the down operation and the other the close operation. Intitially swap the two relays around and try pressing the roof see what happens in my case swapped the relays around roof went down didnt go back up swapped them back and roof went up. Ordered two new relays off bmw 20 pounds a pop in it goes all sorted.

Previous to this my roof motor blew, and i assume this was the culprit to it, over heating roof motor mixed with hydraulics and a faulty relay. Doesnt really harm to try if the roof motor seems okay and the micro switches are good also !

 

[flybobbie]

The boot lid will rise and fall, so the the relays are switching the pump either way.
Boot lid is the only part of roof that will move, with the rest stuck in the boot.
When i press the buttons i hear the relays are clicking and the lights dim slightly so i think the pump is running, but the system is missing the command to raise the roof.
I'm first suspecting the hall switch in the right ram is not triggering, if it's ok it could be a valve solenoid in the block, but bound to be something simply in the end..

 

[flybobbie]

Still waiting for a code reader but spotted a Mitsubishi colt lift ram and sensors at local scrap yard £25, worth a punt.
Bit dismayed to find both sensors cracked. So decided to cut one open.
Basically inside about £1 worth of electronics. The black square is the Hall sensor worth £0.50p, smd capacitor £0.05p and magnet, probably £0.50p. The Hall sensor was super glued inside the rectangular cut out over the hole and the whole lot sealed in rubber inside the plastic case.

I put a multimeter across the wires and passed magnets and steel across the sensor. The only output i could detect was that putting a 9v pp3 battery across the wires the voltage dropped by 1 volt and didn't vary when trying to detect.
But the current varied from 13.9 ma open to 3.0ma in detect. Both sensors did exactly the same.

I'm not sure any cracking would effect the sensor, seems pretty solidly molded in, no cracking of circuit board for instance.
Something you might notice are the wires, they look like they got hot and slightly overheated. The plastic case was also slightly lifted where the wires entered. The 2nd sensor is fine.

 

[flybobbie]

So having bought and received a Foxwell NT520pro (actually ordered a NT510) got using it to find out what the problem was.
Other than it telling me that nearly every limit had a problem, i cancelled them and started again.
Useful function was to see the limit switch operate real time.
So then removed the right boot lifter bracket to get at the cylinder. A bit tricky with the roof still in boot!
I pulled off each hall switch and passed a spanner over them, they all worked fine.
I tested the mechanical limit switches which lock the boot down, they worked fine.
Interestingly there was a name on the side of the hall switch lead, Gebauer & Griller, they seem to make wires.

So next i tested the relays for the pump. Relay 2 operated as the boot lid lifted and dropped, but relay 1 never came on.
So at the pump i swapped over the relays.
Then nothing would move. I pulled each relay and tested the coils with multimeter, seemed fine, they even clicked when a pp3 battery was put across the coils.
So off i trotted to BMW and bought two relays part No. 12 63 1 742 690 salmon pink colour. Bargain at £16 each fairly common part used on lots of BMW's. (cheaper than i had seen on internet).
Fitted them and now all working fine.
I took the old ones apart and can't see anything wrong with them.

So as preventative maintenance, might be good idea say after several years to just replace them.
I wonder how many random roof faults are caused by these relays and the code reader said about 5 limit switches had errors.
I wonder if these are getting replaced based on code reader errors, when there is nothing wrong with the switches.