Roof being fixed by dealer, total nightmair!

S

SummerCowboy

Member
Greetings folks;

I'm brand new here, so first of all want to say hi. I'm new to being a Z4 owner, absolutely love the car. Traded in my Harley Davidson, figured a Z4 is just a bit safer, LOL!

I'll keep this short, but get the point across. Somewhere around the end of June I went to close my roof and it got stuck half closed half open. I scanned ti module wheich lead to a micro switch error. I checked the usual bend points in the harness, but no brake found. I had little time to mess with it, as I my son was graduating highschool and my other car was having trouble, so I decided to take it to the dealer. They came back with an estimate of about $4,600. $1,500 or so for a new roof harness and the rest was labor. I believe this could have been repaired, not replaced, but they wouldn't do that, so I said OK. This will just prevent problems down the line. 3 or so weeks later they tell me I need a new left hydraulic cylider, had to be ordered from Germany, another $1,000. About 3 weeks after that, I needed a control board. 2 weeks ago, there were issues with the hycraulic pump, another $4,500. Last Wednesday it was supposed to be finished, then I was told thursday, then Friday and finally DEFINATELY saturday. Satruday I get a text that the roof did 3 perfect open/close sequences but they wanted to keep it untl this past Tuesday just to be sure. Tuesday I get no communication. I texted "hey, we good to go today?" no response. Today I show up at the dealership. I'm told the roof still isn't closing quite right, should be done today. Additionally throught the last 2 months I have called the service rep countless times. 100 percent of the time this person does not answer the phone. They have a text sysem. I've texted maybe 20 or so times in the past 2 months, probably have recieved about 3 responses. I have been told several times that "it's not qite right so we need to keep it...." As of right now they said it'll be done at the end of the day. I'm quite confident this isn't going to happen.

I want to say "We are done! put everything together. If it goes up and down good enough, that's good enough. Give me my car back and free me of this nightmare.

Honestly.... I don't know what to do. I've had poor service before, but nothing to this level. I feel stuck. Flipping out in the sercie department, while it might make me feel good, is probably not the right thing to do. So I ask.....

What do y'all think I should do and is this length of time reasonable to keep a customer's car? I know nothing of running a service department but I did manage a customer service organization for about 10 years. This is quite incredible. I'm reasonable confident I didn't need the other parts, but at this point I just want to collect my vehicle and get the hell out of there.

Bob
 
Very very sorry to hear your tale of woe..

The fundamental issue is that these cars are complex and need engineers not spanner monkeys..

You need to know a lot about these roofs before you start playing with the customers money.

Sounds like they were learning on the job and experimenting at your expense.

It’s very difficult to find garages you can trust.
 
What a nightmare- and sounds like they don’t know how to solve the problems so are just chucking parts at it at your exspence! I’d ask to speak to the dealer principal and look at some form of goodwill towards the cost given the inability to properly diagnose the fault and the time taken. If they keep your car again tell them you want an equivalent car until yours is sorted.
 
Sounds similar to friend, towed car to garage, told it was cylinder head gasket, no water in expansion tank (but not in oil, i checked, clue).
Fitted gasket, timing out, they smashed engine.
Took me 5 minutes to find out by talking to dealer and internet it was egr valve.

I think some places jump to conclusions, don't think things through or do research.
My friend had to pay £400 to get broken car back and buy 2nd hand engine.
I wouldn't paid a penny.

Think dealer would be worse, don't repair just replace, which is guessing and costly.
 
I feel sorry for a lot of Zed owners, they wouldn't have a clue how to fix these cars.
Reason why their value will collapse.
 
flybobbie said:
Sounds similar to friend, towed car to garage, told it was cylinder head gasket, no water in expansion tank (but not in oil, i checked, clue).
Fitted gasket, timing out, they smashed engine.
Took me 5 minutes to find out by talking to dealer and internet it was egr valve.

I think some places jump to conclusions, don't think things through or do research.
My friend had to pay £400 to get broken car back and buy 2nd hand engine.
I wouldn't paid a penny.

Think dealer would be worse, don't repair just replace, which is guessing and costly.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, every time I take my car in I always say, I have done some research and this is what it could be rather than just letting someone who knows nowt lose on the car at least they have a starting point.
 
If it’s any consolation the Mercedes SLK is just as bad if you have a roof fault, my daughter has one and they have given up trying to fix it. The soft top models are much less troublesome, Mazda avoid the issue having a manual roof.

Maintaining newer cars is going to get even worse, if you don’t have the correct computer to update software you will be stumped. My daily drive I make sure that it has an extended warranty, the Z4 I can handle myself with forum knowledge (so far).
 
Thanks all for the responses. At least I know this is not normal. This particular dealwership, BMW of Atlantic City in New Jersey, is turning out to be a one of the worst operations I've ever had to deal with . I can get no one on the phone, not even a service manager. No one retruns voice mails and that texting servie they provide is all but useless as I rarely recieve responses to texts and when I do, it's as if the person typing has never seen or used a keyboard before as the message is typically a jumbled mess. The only time I get to talk to someone is if I show up at the dealership in person. So, I left one last message this morning that I want my car ready to go TODAY by the time they close. I have capped what I'm paying, so no more parts, which there shouldn't be any more to purchase. I'm pretty sure they've replaced everything, which begs the question, if the pump is new, the harness is new and one of the hydraulic cilindars (so they say....) is new, andy final adjustments should be fairily minimal. the bracketry and roof are all alligned and in perfect condition. what the hell does "still not closing right" even mean? when I brought it to these idiiots, the only fault was for that one switch, which I tested, and it was fine. So, yeah, clearly a broken wire. Ugh! So frustrated.

Guess we'll see what happens today. If I get another line of nonsense fed to me, might be time to consult an atourney.

Thanks again everyone for the responses and letting me vent.

I really do love the car. aside fromthe top issues, this thing is in really great shape runs great and is so much fun to drive, well, from what I remember, LOL! Looks like if i would have been a little more patient, I could have resolved this myslef. I had an incorrect assumption that the dealer mechanics would be able to sort this quickly. Hard lesson learned here.

Bob
 
SummerCowboy said:
Thanks all for the responses. At least I know this is not normal. This particular dealwership, BMW of Atlantic City in New Jersey, is turning out to be a one of the worst operations I've ever had to deal with . I can get no one on the phone, not even a service manager. No one retruns voice mails and that texting servie they provide is all but useless as I rarely recieve responses to texts and when I do, it's as if the person typing has never seen or used a keyboard before as the message is typically a jumbled mess. The only time I get to talk to someone is if I show up at the dealership in person. So, I left one last message this morning that I want my car ready to go TODAY by the time they close. I have capped what I'm paying, so no more parts, which there shouldn't be any more to purchase. I'm pretty sure they've replaced everything, which begs the question, if the pump is new, the harness is new and one of the hydraulic cilindars (so they say....) is new, andy final adjustments should be fairily minimal. the bracketry and roof are all alligned and in perfect condition. what the hell does "still not closing right" even mean? when I brought it to these idiiots, the only fault was for that one switch, which I tested, and it was fine. So, yeah, clearly a broken wire. Ugh! So frustrated.

Guess we'll see what happens today. If I get another line of nonsense fed to me, might be time to consult an atourney.

Thanks again everyone for the responses and letting me vent.

I really do love the car. aside fromthe top issues, this thing is in really great shape runs great and is so much fun to drive, well, from what I remember, LOL! Looks like if i would have been a little more patient, I could have resolved this myslef. I had an incorrect assumption that the dealer mechanics would be able to sort this quickly. Hard lesson learned here.

Bob
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There was a guy on this Forum who went under the title of Dietcokeman. I think his name was Bryan. He was vey knowledgeable about E89 roof issues. I think he had some health issues and sold his Z. But he was on the Forum again recently but under a different title. I can’t remember what the new title was. Perhaps some of the long standing guys might know who I am referring to. It would be worth trying to get in touch with him because he really had an excellent working knowledge of these complicated bits of engineering.
 
Sorry to hear this - can’t believe this still happens.

Another route is to find a specialist independent who’s well recommended by E46 M3 owners.

Independents tend to have the deep dark knowledge of older cars or at the very least know exactly which direction to point you.

IMO, I’d be at the point of saying put ALL the old parts back on my car & give it back without any damage… & I’m not paying as you haven’t fixed it.

As a final suggest, look up Bill of Never Neat Garage in the US on FB, am sure he can point you in the right direction
 
SummerCowboy said:
...they tell me I need a new left hydraulic cylider, had to be ordered from Germany, another $1,000. About 3 weeks after that, I needed a control board. 2 weeks ago, there were issues with the hycraulic pump, another $4,500.
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Sorry to hear, what a nonsense happened to fix only a broken wire.

In most cases hydraulic cylinders have to be replaced pairwise, as a new one operates with a different moving speed as a 10+ years old one. That leads to turning/stucking roof shells while moving.

In this case, they probably have killed this hydraulic cylinder by mounting/dismounting a hydraulic hose, which may happen if you are unexperienced. Or they have lost one or more of the new tiny o-rings and didn't replace them (as it's not documented at BMW which size is required). That wil produce an oil leak.
Pretty sure a nonsense replacement.

Hydraulic pumps only die due to water in the trunk or welded relay contacts.
Surely they have replaced the pump after replacing only this single hydraulic cylinder, which led to a stucking roof shell. Another nonsense replacement.

CTM's (Cabrio Top Module) only die due to water in the trunk. Nonsense replacement as well.

Important to know:
New CTM's out of stock don't operate on elder 3-solenoid hydraulic pumps on pre-2013 Z4. It has to be re-configuered. After replacing the old pump with a brandnew 4-solenoid pump, this re-configuration has to be dropped.

Ugh, the only solution I see is a good attorney! Good luck.

Tip:
If you keep this damaged car, get the 2 salmon relay replaced ASAP, as they can kill the new hydraulic pump. A datecode is lasered on their top, YYWW - year and week of production.

For all others running into roof troubles:
RobbiZ4 said:
As said,
there are always broken wires in the upper bow of the hydraulic harness, never broken microswitches (MS)!
Don't try to replace the MS in the rear roof shell.
Click to expand...
 
Well, the good news is, I'm all fixed and back in business. the bad news is, it cost a small fortune and I'm relatively certain there was no need to replace my pump or the hydraulic cylinder. I asked a very simple question, how would these things fail when they worked perfectly when I brought the car in? The only response they would utter is "these tops can be very temprimental and it is a 14 year old car". I'm actually OK with the harness replacement. Certainly not needed at this time, but keeps me from broken wires for a while. I certainly should have done this myself. finding and repairing the wire, while a pain, would have taken hours, not weeks. And if I so desired, doing a harness replacement in the dead of winter, would actually be a worthwhile project. I certainly got taken for a ride. So, learn from my very costly mistake. Never ever ever EVER take these cars to a dealership. I'm convinced all the mecnahic did was parts chase the crap out of this thing, didn't repair or properly diagnose anything. The way BMW service is structured, it is very difficult to speak to THE menchanic. they have a service rep that you deal with. Well, my service rep knew virtually NOTHING about ANY car, AT ALL!! When I did speak to the mechanic, I was quite underwhelmed. I definately underestimated my own skills and WAAAAAAY over estimated this dealership. I eventually had to work derectly with the service manager, communicaiting, as nice as I could, if we can't get this resolved, I'm taking my car, paying you nothing and we can duke it out in courte. Next time I have to deal with a shop, I'll find a BMW specialty shop, even if I have to flat bed the car there. Never again.

Anyway, thanks all for the support, suggestions and help. This forum is fantastik If i would have found this forum before all fo this, I probably would have never entertained the idea of using the dealership. One saving grace, knock on wood, the rest of the car is in really great shape and I have all of the maintenance records for all the important upgrades, like injectors replaced, walnut shell blasted, oil catch can install, etc. The thing runs quite nice. Otherwise I would be selling it right now, LOL!

Thanks again and everyone have a great day

Bob
 
Hi Bob,

What about the cost? Did you really pay everything, even the parts that have been changed unnecessarily? That should have run up to 8k USD, didn't it?

Well this "top" is absolutely NOT "temprimental"!

It's an absolute logical box of steel, aluminium, copper, plastics as well as some software. :D
And our Z4 roofs are the easiest to maintain/repair in the BMW convertible cosmos! :rofl:


And there's one thing that can't be repeated often enough:
The roof of the Z4 E89 has only 1 (one) fault when it fails. Almost never a second failure. Except in the case of water damage in the trunk

And hey Bob, don't forget to renew the 2 salmon relays! :poke:

Cheers
Robert
 
I have read this thread all the way through, and have to say it annoys the shite out of me for several reasons:

1. It's yet another case of "we don't know what we are doing but it's OK because the mug of a customer will pay for our ineptness". It is everywhere these days, but the automotive industry seems to get away it every day.
I am presuming this is a BMW franchised dealership? If so, they have no excuse for not diagnosing the fault straight away. These cars have 'OBD's, so it will tell the garage what is wrong (or at least point them in the right direction). If they can't work that out, then they have a direct line to the manufacturer who designed and built the fecking thing. Who just happen to be one of the largest, and richest, car manufacturers on the planet. If they don't know, then who does?

But of course BMW are not interested unless it potentially is going to cost them money. The dealership are not interested in doing things correctly unless it is going to cost them money.

2. If I was the OP I would not be paying the dealership a penny. Their collective ineptness should cost someone else money, not you. Let them sue you. I would love to hear what a court would think. Chances are they wouldn't take legal action, as the bad PR wouldn't be worth their while.

3. If you did pay for all their unnecessary work and parts, then you are just fuelling the process for the next mug.

I run a business in a mechanical service industry. I would have been out of a job long ago if I had the attitude/ lack of knowledge of this dealership (and they ain't the only ones).

Rant over! :|
 
All the time they can continue to sell new cars with a limited time based warranty, nothing will change as you’re not their main source of income.

The ‘it’s a 14 year old car’ story is the Japanese water torture trick to get you into a new one.

Independent Specialists by contrast have a passion to keep classics on the road, which IMO is why their attitude, helpfulness & being mindful of cost are so different.
 
The problem is that so many technicians are just “fitters” trained to replace components in the current range of cars, anything that involves troubleshooting is beyond their skill set. A dealers main income is keeping cars under warranty running when the manufacturer picks up the bill. Electronic systems are notoriously difficult to fix because a broken wire or corroded connection causes havoc. I know of several 2 yr old vehicles that had to be written off because wiring loom faults could not be fixed, they were salvaged for parts so it wasn’t a total loss, I don’t see the problems improving in the future.
 
Shocking... at that cost it would of been cheaper to fly RobbiZ4 out from Germany and pay him to fix it!
 
Zed Baron said:
Shocking... at that cost it would of been cheaper to fly RobbiZ4 out from Germany...
Click to expand...
Just my words. :D

And even all tools and materials can be purchased at the destination. Maybe I could even restore my Y3 Diagnostic System to most destinations within two weeks. This would allow me to avoid all entry and customs restrictions. :thumbsup:

⌛Y3 Roof Diagnostic System (for all BMW convertible & roadster)
https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=134505
 
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