Craig - I'm not necessarily pro any particular party. I come at this from what is best for UK Plc. We need to be a good place to do business with the right balance of regulation/employee rights, with an attractive environment for businesses to start up or move here. China and India are not going to suddenly start paying their workers a minimum wage. So we have a choice, keep our system and slowly get poorer, less skilled and more bitter or dismantle the welfare state and start competing again. People who say "well I don't want to live in a state like that" are deluded. If you want food on the table, decent schools, trains, hospitals in 25 years you better get used to it.
Road tax system needs changing
- Thread starter IKZ4
- Start date
I wish you were wrong
mad4slalom
Senior member
there, re taxed the M. how much do they raise through ved, 30 billion and spend 6 billion on the roads ? right i'm off to spin up some tarmac to get my money's worth,..... whilst dodging the unrepaired pot holes that is.!!! 
a340driver
Member
If you can't afford the tax on an M then you probably can't afford the car. There are bigger expenses. I think it's massively offset by the performance bargain that the car is. There's enough badly serviced BMW's around anyway. It's a huge sports car for the money. Which is why I have one. 
As for the politics....If you don't like the system, change it. All politicians are w=n8ers? Well at least they're trying to change the system according to their view of the world (and trust me I'm not a fan either).
Complaining about it on a Z4 forum isn't getting your point to anyone. Write to your MP. I do and they respond. Maybe the forum could submit a vote to no 10. How much sympathy would a group of sports car owners get in the wider world though?
Complaining on here though leaves me cold. Out of all these opinions, not one link, not one attempt to actually change anything?
Write to your MP
http://www.writetothem.com
As for the politics....If you don't like the system, change it. All politicians are w=n8ers? Well at least they're trying to change the system according to their view of the world (and trust me I'm not a fan either).
Complaining about it on a Z4 forum isn't getting your point to anyone. Write to your MP. I do and they respond. Maybe the forum could submit a vote to no 10. How much sympathy would a group of sports car owners get in the wider world though?
Complaining on here though leaves me cold. Out of all these opinions, not one link, not one attempt to actually change anything?
Write to your MP
http://www.writetothem.com
a340driver said:If you can't afford the tax on an M then you probably can't afford the car. There are bigger expenses. I think it's massively offset by the performance bargain that the car is. There's enough badly serviced BMW's around anyway. It's a huge sports car for the money. Which is why I have one.
As for the politics....If you don't like the system, change it. All politicians are w=n8ers? Well at least they're trying to change the system according to their view of the world (and trust me I'm not a fan either).
Complaining about it on a Z4 forum isn't getting your point to anyone. Write to your MP. I do and they respond. Maybe the forum could submit a vote to no 10. How much sympathy would a group of sports car owners get in the wider world though?
Complaining on here though leaves me cold. Out of all these opinions, not one link, not one attempt to actually change anything?
Write to your MP
http://www.writetothem.com
Done
I wrote to my MP about the badger cull. That I believe to be wicked.
Fuel duty and road fund license are both choices. One of the few taxes where you can influence your spend. It isn't a great design for petrol heads but as taxes go they are reasonably progressive.
Plus I wasn't aware I was complaining, just idly chatting. As for politicians trying to influence outcomes, I am not convinced that they can. I am from an activist family and have worked for quite a few politicians. All parties. I like them well enough but I believe they are reasonably powerless.
Fuel duty and road fund license are both choices. One of the few taxes where you can influence your spend. It isn't a great design for petrol heads but as taxes go they are reasonably progressive.
Plus I wasn't aware I was complaining, just idly chatting. As for politicians trying to influence outcomes, I am not convinced that they can. I am from an activist family and have worked for quite a few politicians. All parties. I like them well enough but I believe they are reasonably powerless.
VED at these levels is theft pure and simple, and the thieving bastards have it premised on shoddy and fraudulent 'science' (i.e. the unproven link between lemonade bubbles and gloopal wombling - which BTW hasn't been happening these past 16 years, and in any case there's simply no human signal in any of the data). I have just been violated for 6 month's worth of VED and it still hurts to sit down.
As for fuel, well yet again that is Dick Turpin territory.
Bastards. :x
As for fuel, well yet again that is Dick Turpin territory.
Bastards. :x
mad4slalom
Senior member
diderot ,very well said. a340 driver , its not a case of not being able to afford the tax, its the resentment oversuch a wrongly thought out and blatently unfair and unequal tax. it doesnt takee a lot of working out that co2 emmissions are being artificially and wrongly used to extort yet more cash from already over sqeezed motorists because they are easy targets,......unless of course you happen to believe that hockey stick graph bollocks.
Since when has any government listened, and responded to complaints about taxes of any sort from the public? The poll tax riots came about because of it and only then did they change the system....(to the same tax with a different name)
I could be wrong but I don't recall any government changing their taxation policies because of letter writing. If they want to tax us they will and at whatever level they want.
I'm not saying don't write to your MP, it can't hurt and i still would if i felt strongly enough about anything but I would be extremely surprised if it made one iota of difference.
(Phew, Fin's not watching me anymore!)
I could be wrong but I don't recall any government changing their taxation policies because of letter writing. If they want to tax us they will and at whatever level they want.
I'm not saying don't write to your MP, it can't hurt and i still would if i felt strongly enough about anything but I would be extremely surprised if it made one iota of difference.
(Phew, Fin's not watching me anymore!)
Yeah sorry about that. I only have so much time. It had to go.
So whilst I agree that the VED system seems unfair for low mileage weekend high CO2 cars, I really do have no sympathy on the amount of duty you M owners are charged, sorry but for most on here you knew and accepted the cost before making the decision to buy.
There will always be losers in any change to a system, for the majority of road users those with the least efficient cars should be taxed the highest, this is not just a tax on the public but an incentive for car manufacturers to produce more efficient vehicles and that can only be a good thing.
There will always be losers in any change to a system, for the majority of road users those with the least efficient cars should be taxed the highest, this is not just a tax on the public but an incentive for car manufacturers to produce more efficient vehicles and that can only be a good thing.
sars said:
I have a 2002 Z3MC and a 2007 Z4MC, both have the same S54 engine, which will both pollute our environment at the same rate, yet I pay substantially more to pollute it with the Z4MC. Where's the logic and the fairness behind the tax? Governments will create taxes in any way they can; they taxed the use of light when they introduced a "Window tax" in 1696 and the present rates of VED are just a tax on air. Governments tax us because they can, and so they do.
I think they should put a tax on food. Bigger people use more of the world's resources than smaller people, and it's a pain sitting next to them on public transport or behind them in cinemas/theatres, stadiums etc. Not to mention when they get clinically obese they become a drain on the NHS paid for by our taxes. Dave Spikey says that fat people should be rendered and turned into soap.
http://www.ehow.com/how_5154430_make-soap-fat.htmlThe tax on the M would be more easily tolerated if the road tax pricing structure achieved its environmental objectives. As long as diesels with low CO2 are allowed to pay minimal or no road tax whilst emitting significantly more greenhouse gases each year than my highly taxed M, I will continue to think the policy is fundamentally flawed.
Diderot said:
Exactly, they use it in commercial green houses and call it "Carbon dioxide enrichment" and where they leave the lights ON all night, which consumes electric energy which is created by burning carbon-based fuel, adding to so-called pollution!
http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar...a=X&ei=Y2cOUdrZMMPO0QWGz4HYBw&ved=0CC4QgQMwAAI'm guessing your slim Exdos?
a340driver said:If you can't afford the tax on an M then you probably can't afford the car. There are bigger expenses. I think it's massively offset by the performance bargain that the car is. There's enough badly serviced BMW's around anyway. It's a huge sports car for the money. Which is why I have one.
As for the politics....If you don't like the system, change it. All politicians are w=n8ers? Well at least they're trying to change the system according to their view of the world (and trust me I'm not a fan either).
Complaining about it on a Z4 forum isn't getting your point to anyone. Write to your MP. I do and they respond. Maybe the forum could submit a vote to no 10. How much sympathy would a group of sports car owners get in the wider world though?
Complaining on here though leaves me cold. Out of all these opinions, not one link, not one attempt to actually change anything?
Write to your MP
http://www.writetothem.com
Can afford the tax and the car/running costs just fine,thanks
,and(sars) i knew how much it was when i bought it,having owned a z4 for long enough...i just feel there needs to be a fairer system of tax for cars based on how many miles you do.
Maybe we should start having a roadtax at different levels,for different c02 outputs and for different mileages,say upto 10k,20k,30k,miles per yr,for example which can be regulated by annual mots or vehicle mlg checks(for newer cars). Then we can all be happy.
I do agree though,these are very good value performance cars for the money,especially at present 2nd hand levels