Remap.
- Thread starter baconJazz
- Start date
Not in my book. :wink:baconJazz said:Hi all.
(reposted as I posted in e89 thread by mistake and couldn't delete it , sorry ! )
A tuning company in Sheffield has just quoted me £249 for a bespoke remap on my e86.
Figures are as follows ; 265-282 (+17hp) &. 315-360 (+45nm)
Worth it ???
For the future. If you post in the wrong place, let the mods know and they will happily move it for you.
You won't see that kind of gain without supporting mods and raising the rev limiter.
Are you just wanting more power or are you trying to modify how certain aspects of how the car drives?
I had my 3.0si mapped, from memory there were small adjustments in timing advance, lambda target value and a raised rev limiter. To me this made for a far more involving drive, and better suited track driving when really revving it out.
In practice however the only time I had it on a dyno it supposedly made less power than stock. Now not to bemoan dynos but how on earth anyone feels it is possible to get an accurate engine power figure by back calculating based on an arbitrary 'transmission losses' % figure is quite beyond me.
So my actual point underneath all the above ramblings is - are you wanting purely more power (in which case literally don't bother because anyone could map the car and fudge a dyno result to make it look more powerful) or are you doing it to make the car drive differently to better suit a desired application (in which case for the love of God don't take it to anyone promising 'yeah +17bhp mate' - they absolutely don't know what they're talking about and will in all likelihood be bunging a map they don't fully understand off the Internet on it '
Are you just wanting more power or are you trying to modify how certain aspects of how the car drives?
I had my 3.0si mapped, from memory there were small adjustments in timing advance, lambda target value and a raised rev limiter. To me this made for a far more involving drive, and better suited track driving when really revving it out.
In practice however the only time I had it on a dyno it supposedly made less power than stock. Now not to bemoan dynos but how on earth anyone feels it is possible to get an accurate engine power figure by back calculating based on an arbitrary 'transmission losses' % figure is quite beyond me.
So my actual point underneath all the above ramblings is - are you wanting purely more power (in which case literally don't bother because anyone could map the car and fudge a dyno result to make it look more powerful) or are you doing it to make the car drive differently to better suit a desired application (in which case for the love of God don't take it to anyone promising 'yeah +17bhp mate' - they absolutely don't know what they're talking about and will in all likelihood be bunging a map they don't fully understand off the Internet on it '
Ed Doe said:
At the very least I thought it might give me a slightly smoother power curve and sort out the (real or imagined ) flat spot I think I have .
Just for the record this company builds race cars and also specialise in BMW. I was assured that it wasn't an "off the shelf" job.
But , it does seem that the general consensus so far is that it's not worth it , although you did mention in some way it gave you a"more involving " drive (?)
baconJazz said:At the very least I thought it might give me a slightly smoother power curve and sort out the (real or imagined ) flat spot I think I have .
Just for the record this company builds race cars and also specialise in BMW. I was assured that it wasn't an "off the shelf" job.
But , it does seem that the general consensus so far is that it's not worth it , although you did mention in some way it gave you a"more involving " drive (?)
These engines are supposed to have a very smooth power curve from the factory - so if you have a flat spot that would indicate a fault with a sensor or some of the ancillary hardware like vanos solenoids or valvetronic. I'd most certainly be investigating issues before trying to 'map it out'.
Your tuner may well be very good, I obviously don't know their experience but I would reiterate if you're looking for power a remap on otherwise entirely stock engine is extremely unlikely to deliver that.
As I said - with mine I had specific parameters I wanted improving to suit my driving and intended use for the car, one of which being less throttle damping or 'hysteresis', as well as a more aggressive throttle map for 'non sport' mode. I also had the rev limiter raised to 7.6k so it would hit 65ish in 2nd, which made it easier to maintain 2nd and get stronger drive out of the hairpin at Goodwood :lol:
As I said I had specific reasons - if you're just generally chasing power you're likely to be disappointed
Ed Doe said:baconJazz said:At the very least I thought it might give me a slightly smoother power curve and sort out the (real or imagined ) flat spot I think I have .
Just for the record this company builds race cars and also specialise in BMW. I was assured that it wasn't an "off the shelf" job.
But , it does seem that the general consensus so far is that it's not worth it , although you did mention in some way it gave you a"more involving " drive (?)
These engines are supposed to have a very smooth power curve from the factory - so if you have a flat spot that would indicate a fault with a sensor or some of the ancillary hardware like vanos solenoids or valvetronic. I'd most certainly be investigating issues before trying to 'map it out'.
Your tuner may well be very good, I obviously don't know their experience but I would reiterate if you're looking for power a remap on otherwise entirely stock engine is extremely unlikely to deliver that.
As I said - with mine I had specific parameters I wanted improving to suit my driving and intended use for the car, one of which being less throttle damping or 'hysteresis', as well as a more aggressive throttle map for 'non sport' mode. I also had the rev limiter raised to 7.6k so it would hit 65ish in 2nd, which made it easier to maintain 2nd and get stronger drive out of the hairpin at Goodwood :lol:
As I said I had specific reasons - if you're just generally chasing power you're likely to be disappointed
Ed Doe said:baconJazz said:At the very least I thought it might give me a slightly smoother power curve and sort out the (real or imagined ) flat spot I think I have .
Just for the record this company builds race cars and also specialise in BMW. I was assured that it wasn't an "off the shelf" job.
But , it does seem that the general consensus so far is that it's not worth it , although you did mention in some way it gave you a"more involving " drive (?)
These engines are supposed to have a very smooth power curve from the factory - so if you have a flat spot that would indicate a fault with a sensor or some of the ancillary hardware like vanos solenoids or valvetronic. I'd most certainly be investigating issues before trying to 'map it out'.
Your tuner may well be very good, I obviously don't know their experience but I would reiterate if you're looking for power a remap on otherwise entirely stock engine is extremely unlikely to deliver that.
As I said - with mine I had specific parameters I wanted improving to suit my driving and intended use for the car, one of which being less throttle damping or 'hysteresis', as well as a more aggressive throttle map for 'non sport' mode. I also had the rev limiter raised to 7.6k so it would hit 65ish in 2nd, which made it easier to maintain 2nd and get stronger drive out of the hairpin at Goodwood :lol:
As I said I had specific reasons - if you're just generally chasing power you're likely to be disappointed
Well , that all sounds like good and sensible advice. You've talked me out of it. I'll investigate the flat spot through other means . So , if indeed I was after a tad more oomph ! (who isn't ) would exhaust and induction modifications be the way to go , or is this going to be cost prohibitive comparative to hp gains ?
The cheapest genuine way to more oomph would be nitrous injection. The vast majority of the remaps out there simply change the throttle mapping similar to sport mode to make the engine ’feel’ more responsive.
Ok there are a few things you can do to push the knock timings a bit closer to the limit etc, but without breathing or cam mods you are looking at 3-5bhp at best.
Ok there are a few things you can do to push the knock timings a bit closer to the limit etc, but without breathing or cam mods you are looking at 3-5bhp at best.
One thing a dyno run would be good for is identifying if there are flat spots - and if the vanos disa and so on are working properly. A good dyno operator would be able to talk you through it all - Surrey rolling Road are very good for that and price for a few runs isn't unreasonable.... not sure where you're based though!?
Unless you're really delving into it, you are unlikely to really release any noticeable power from the engine - the inlet is well optimised from the factory - you might be able to run slightly leaner if you decatted the car but that's a lot of faff - manifolds seem to cost a lot!
So yeah short of turbo supercharger (or yes nos!) I'd only really look at exhaust and induction as noise mods rather than power! I personally did a midbox chop on mine which cut a nice balance between noise and burbles and was still perfectly usable daily (which mine was for 5 years as well as a few trackdays).
Video from one of my last trackdays before I sold the car https://youtu.be/55xgJWBDTDM - excuse the absolute cobblers I seem to spout most of the time in the car, and the microphone isn't really ideal but hopefully you get some of it - plus the effect of the raised limiter on mine?
Unless you're really delving into it, you are unlikely to really release any noticeable power from the engine - the inlet is well optimised from the factory - you might be able to run slightly leaner if you decatted the car but that's a lot of faff - manifolds seem to cost a lot!
So yeah short of turbo supercharger (or yes nos!) I'd only really look at exhaust and induction as noise mods rather than power! I personally did a midbox chop on mine which cut a nice balance between noise and burbles and was still perfectly usable daily (which mine was for 5 years as well as a few trackdays).
Video from one of my last trackdays before I sold the car https://youtu.be/55xgJWBDTDM - excuse the absolute cobblers I seem to spout most of the time in the car, and the microphone isn't really ideal but hopefully you get some of it - plus the effect of the raised limiter on mine?
baconJazz said:That looked like loads of fun !.......never done a track day myself. Engine sounds nice with the mid box delete. How is that as far as MOT is concerned ? What is the procedure for doing this , is it a DIY job ?
Yep trackdays are utterly addictive - hence why I ended up buying the M shortly after selling the si - the coupe chassis is so good on track, it really comes alive
Midbox chop is super easy to do but recommend you get an exhaust place to do it, as you want straight pipes welded in properly.
I tried to DIY it with clamped pipes instead of welded but due to the angle of one of the pipes immediately before the Midbox you can't get them to mate straight so it blows. Dreadfully annoying and made it more of a pain to weld as there was exhaust paste all over everything :lol:
I think mine got done for something like 60quid or so all in.
It makes absolutely no difference to mot
static noise test at Goodwood at 5krpm 1m from the exhaust was about 86db or so - it's loud without veing offensive if you know what I mean, and burbles on the overrun and sometimes between shifts