Rear Speakers...

[Andrew*Debbie]

The rears aren't wired with any of the front speakers. If they were, the fader wouldn't work.

The footwell speakers are woofers. Disconnecting them will remove the bass.

The tweeters I added are in parallel with the midranges in the doors. Combined nominal impedance doesn't change much as there is a crossover. The woofers are probably also in parallel with another first-order crossover.

Typical schematic (not BMW)

http://freecircuitdiagram.com/2009/01/02/1st-order-3-way-crossover-circuit-design-using-free-online-tool/

BMW may have left out the inductors to save money.


I have a set of BMW wiring diagrams, but they only go to about 2007. So no e89s.

 

[NormStrm]

Thanks Andrew

Do the wiring diagrams you have (accepting not for the E89) show inclusion of the cross over circuitry?

Will have to see if I can get the head unit out and get to the speakers to see how they are connected, will take a look at the various photo's and how to's to see if I fancy giving it a go.

 

[micz4]

Actually no.. I'm quite happy with the HiFi, sounds nice enough, and goes loud enough to make you think 'dear god thats loud'. Now clearly there's room for improvement, but I have to say that either my car got slipped a bigger amp, or people that complain about it need the music loud enough to give you tinnitus.

Seriously, if I have mine anywhere near full I look like a right chav with banging music blasting out of the car.

+1 but yes,the rear speakers are useless.

 

[Maniac]

See I think this rear speaker low volume thing was done on purpose. That speaker is right behind your head/shoulder and if it was loud like the main speakers would unbalance the sound. I think they've made them quiet to 'balance' the sound output given where you sit in relation to the speakers. Again, I have no real issue with the sound, sure it can be improved, but its far from rubbish.

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

Do the wiring diagrams you have (accepting not for the E89) show inclusion of the cross over circuitry?

No they don't. The crossover is included with the tweeter. It is probably also part of the wiring for the midrange. Or there isn't a crossover.

Here is the wiring digram for base audio system from an e90. The front midranges are in parallel with the woofers. The rear mid ranges are connected to the rear amplifiers. I suspect the e89 is very similar.

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

Here is the wiring diagram for an e90 with Business Audio. The e89 is similar but has front and rear centre channels.


The radio's speaker outputs are connected to an amplifier. The Amplifier drives the woofers on a pair of outputs. The midranges and tweeters are in parallel and connected to another output. In this case there is almost certainly a crossover in the amplifier. I already know there is one in the tweeter.

 

[sars]

See I think this rear speaker low volume thing was done on purpose. That speaker is right behind your head/shoulder and if it was loud like the main speakers would unbalance the sound. I think they've made them quiet to 'balance' the sound output given where you sit in relation to the speakers. Again, I have no real issue with the sound, sure it can be improved, but its far from rubbish.

So you think it acceptable not to be able listen to any classical music with the top down at speeds greater than 50 mph or listen to an audiobook because you cannot hear the narrator.

 

[Maniac]

See I think this rear speaker low volume thing was done on purpose. That speaker is right behind your head/shoulder and if it was loud like the main speakers would unbalance the sound. I think they've made them quiet to 'balance' the sound output given where you sit in relation to the speakers. Again, I have no real issue with the sound, sure it can be improved, but its far from rubbish.

So you think it acceptable not to be able listen to any classical music with the top down at speeds greater than 50 mph or listen to an audiobook because you cannot hear the narrator.

That's a little antagonistic sars... I'm not certain why you feel so strongly but I'm not the one to vent your frustrations upon. I find the audio system acceptable. You, clearly, do not.

 

[sars]

I'm not sure that I was being antagonistic towards you, just stating a simple fact that the stereo is not upto the job. As for being bitter, you bet I am, I was advised by my dealer that the standard stereo was good and no need to spend the extra £600 to get a decent sound only to find out that to listen to music on the motorway with the top down I have to wear in-ear headphones. So when I hear someone say that this is acceptable I laugh and cry because it clearly isn't, and because even Hyundai gives you a better stereo than BMW.

and BMW get away with it because people don't complain, if you go onto the other BMW forums you will note that I am not alone here in my scathing views on this.

Rant over......

 

[Maniac]

I'm not sure that I was being antagonistic towards you, just stating a simple fact that the stereo is not upto the job. As for being bitter, you bet I am, I was advised by my dealer that the standard stereo was good and no need to spend the extra £600 to get a decent sound only to find out that to listen to music on the motorway with the top down I have to wear in-ear headphones. So when I hear someone say that this is acceptable I laugh and cry because it clearly isn't, and because even Hyundai gives you a better stereo than BMW.

and BMW get away with it because people don't complain, if you go onto the other BMW forums you will note that I am not alone here in my scathing views on this.

Rant over......

I take it you've had that out with the dealer and BMW then? I mean sound quality is of course subjective, but if you feel that strongly, complain. As for no one complaining lol... Call BMW UK or BMW Williams and ask them if they have a regular E89 35i owner that complains... cos they sure do It might take me a while, but I get there. Persistence really is a virtue.

 

[duncan-m-w]

I agree with Maniac on all points really.

Things to note:
1. I have the prof (£855 upgrade) package.
2. In normal stereo, even when you fade all the way to the back, the speakers are very quiet/almost non-existant. I also believe this is intentional.
3. It is only when you put it in surround that they suddenly become a lot louder, but then they are not playing the full spectrum of sound as the DSP is trying to do fancy things with moving the sound around the car.
4. Go watch music live - be it classical or otherwise. Go listen to top end hi-fi's. The sound stage is in front of you, not behind. Yes clubs and djs have different systems, but then you should have bought the more expensive package if you wanted a surround experience.

This is not to say that the std package is acceptable or otherwise, just saying it is not about the rear speakers. Amp, tweeters and higher quality speakers will play a bigger part in producing a high quality sound, than the speakers behind. If I am listening to vocal or instrument intensive music, I turn the surround off for a cleaner, purer sound. I only go surround (and therefore have any tangible impact from the rears) when listening to dub step/dance etc.

Final point - why did you not test the stereo during the test drive? Listened to it in the showroom?!? Listened to other versions as you made you decision?!? Shame on you if you did not....

Salesman will tell you anything to sell a car and usually know less than I do about the car they are trying to sell me.

 

[sars]

I'm not sure that I was being antagonistic towards you, just stating a simple fact that the stereo is not upto the job. As for being bitter, you bet I am, I was advised by my dealer that the standard stereo was good and no need to spend the extra £600 to get a decent sound only to find out that to listen to music on the motorway with the top down I have to wear in-ear headphones. So when I hear someone say that this is acceptable I laugh and cry because it clearly isn't, and because even Hyundai gives you a better stereo than BMW.

and BMW get away with it because people don't complain, if you go onto the other BMW forums you will note that I am not alone here in my scathing views on this.

Rant over......

I take it you've had that out with the dealer and BMW then? I mean sound quality is of course subjective, but if you feel that strongly, complain. As for no one complaining lol... Call BMW UK or BMW Williams and ask them if they have a regular E89 35i owner that complains... cos they sure do It might take me a while, but I get there. Persistence really is a virtue.

The car was back at the dealer after the first weekend, same problem as the rest, low sound out of the rear speakers and the fact that I couldn't hear much at speed, the dealer looked at the car for a day and stated that it was fine. I then borrowed some sound monitoring equipment to record the data. maximum spl was 87 dB and the noise of a lorry at 50 mph is 84 dB, with that I made a written official complaint to the dealer who then booked the car in for another few days.

The conclusion was that the stereo was as the manufacturer had intended, the stereo upgrade could not be retro-fitted and so that was that.

Final point - why did you not test the stereo during the test drive? Listened to it in the showroom?!? Listened to other versions as you made you decision?!? Shame on you if you did not....

Salesman will tell you anything to sell a car and usually know less than I do about the car they are trying to sell me.

All the cars they had to test drive had the upgraded stereo, in the showroom I listened to the standard stereo and with the roof up it was okay, but this is not the same as doing 60 mph down the motorway with the top down. As for the salesmen lying to me, what was the benefit to him, tell me the truth and I would have spent an extra £600.00, I don't believe he intentionally lied to me, he just didn't know.

My main grievance is with BMW, the fact that they knowingly produced a car with stereo that isn't up to the job, a fact that I have never had with Saab, Audi & Volkswagen whose standard stereo power output is significantly better.

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

Base audio is crap on most BMWs. One more way for them to make some profit but still get the cars in at a set price point. In the US market, where everything is different, BMW usually fits Business audio as standard.


At least I knew what I would be getting. I tested a car roof down on the M56 with the base audio. We went back and forth about getting Business audio. £565 is a lot of money for a car we will probably hand back 2 years from now. In the end, Debbie got a new iPad instead and we got the tweeters.

 

[Kev R]

I appear to have kicked something off here that was never my intention to do, I realise that music, what we listen to and how we listen to it is very subjective and we would all do well to remember that...

I initiated this post due to my discovery of virtually no sound emanating from my rear speakers, not knowing if this was a fault or not... It transpires it is not, BMW have designed it that way. Saying that I can fully understand the very valid point raised by maniac It is possible and logical that BMW have considered a normal volume output would be too overpowering being so close to ones ear, however if that is the case they have done a very poor job of the balancing when the fader is neutral literally nothing comes out of those rear units.

I also agree with sars, you pay north of 32k for a car, you expect the starting point to be acceptable...the upgrades should be for those who can afford and wish to have "Superior quality" the rest of us should have and be happy with plain old "Quality" however we are not, certainly not for the class and value of this vehicle.

I cannot imagine a BMW sound engineer sitting in a Z4 with the standard set-up and giving it the can you? I think he was more likely given a budget to achieve a level of acceptability but one that would entice punters to go upstream for bigger and better results.

As the OP I would like to request this discussion/post is used for suggestions and ideas of how we can realistically and cost effectively improve on the standard 6 speaker set-up. I think most of us have conceded the standard set-up is crap so lets move on

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

.

As the OP I would like to request this discussion/post is used for suggestions and ideas of how we can realistically and cost effectively improve on the standard 6 speaker set-up.

I've done a ton of reading, had a good look at the car and photos in other threads. Here is one possible upgrade path:


Stage 1: Tweeters in the front doors
Stage 1.5: Find out if the head unit is has coded EQ or not. I've seen conflicting posts. If the head unit is coded, change it to Business audio.
Stage 2: Blaupunkt THA 475 Plug and Play amplifier and upgrade all four drop-in mid ranges.
Stage 3: Add 6x9 Woofers to the rear channels. DIY cross overs between the Woofers and the existing rear mid-ranges.

 

[Kev R]

.

As the OP I would like to request this discussion/post is used for suggestions and ideas of how we can realistically and cost effectively improve on the standard 6 speaker set-up.

I've done a ton of reading, had a good look at the car and photos in other threads. Here is one possible upgrade path:


Stage 1: Tweeters in the front doors
Stage 2: Blaupunkt THA 475 Plug and Play amplifier and upgrade all four drop-in mid ranges.
Stage 3: Add 6x9 Woofers to the rear channels. DIY cross overs between the Woofers and the existing rear mid-ranges.

Hi Andrew, that sounds like a plan...any cutting or chopping to do for the rear woofers?

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

Hi Andrew, that sounds like a plan...any cutting or chopping to do for the rear woofers?

Yes. There are photos somewhere of a custom install for 6x9s.

If you don't want to do any cutting an alternative would be to upgrade the kick panel woofers using the professional audio woofers. Option 1 would be to add a passive crossover and power it from the 75wpc Blaupunkt.
Option 2 would be to forgo the plug and play amplifier but instead bi-amp the front channels. At this point we are starting to leave affordable and enter the mid-crazy zone.

 

[EdP]

Stage 3: Add 6x9 Woofers to the rear channels. DIY cross overs between the Woofers and the existing rear mid-ranges

This won't be a good idea, because the rear speaker output of the BMW radio/amplifier unit is actively high pass filtered, so this channel is not suitable for low frequency woofer output.

I think if you want to keep the original audio system, stage 2 is the best option in combination with new rear/door full range speakers, and of course a nice subwoofer.

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

Stage 3: Add 6x9 Woofers to the rear channels. DIY cross overs between the Woofers and the existing rear mid-ranges

This won't be a good idea, because the rear speaker output of the BMW radio/amplifier unit is actively high pass filtered, so this channel is not suitable for low frequency woofer output.

It must be possible to code that off, somehow. I've been searching and keep finding conflicting information about it.

 

[Maniac]

Stage 3: Add 6x9 Woofers to the rear channels. DIY cross overs between the Woofers and the existing rear mid-ranges

This won't be a good idea, because the rear speaker output of the BMW radio/amplifier unit is actively high pass filtered, so this channel is not suitable for low frequency woofer output.

It must be possible to code that off, somehow. I've been searching and keep finding conflicting information about it.

I doubt it, its likely a hardware thing as part of the head unit...