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Anonymous
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Broads said:
Well to be pedantic the 18i has a lower spec as standard ref AC and wheels, maybe some other extras, the 28i has 30mm larger front discs...that’s it...
Re mapping
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Well to be pedantic the 18i has a lower spec as standard ref AC and wheels, maybe some other extras, the 28i has 30mm larger front discs...that’s it...
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Anonymous
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Broads said:Remap sold... Where do I get my new 2.8 badge from
I would suggest a badge delete and taking those stupid S Drive badges off too, would be good IMHO! :
After all it wouldn’t be 28i it would be 28i+
Pbondar said:
Check my insta a couple of posts back... I am taking a second look at the deep sea blue 2.0 on Friday. With the info about the remap should be more than enough to convince me not to get that 3.5 that had been modded.
Going to have to have a side by side of the Z3, and the Z4 before I px.. It will be a happy sad day..
Pdondar I also thought the same as you that it was a pure marketing exercise. However I spoke to an engineer in Munich HQ before I got mine re-mapped - There is a difference between the engines.
The pistons on the 18i, 20i and 28i are physically identical to look at however they use a different material mix for each car on the production line to save costs. The higher the engine output the more copper is mixed with the aluminium of the piston head when it is cast to increase its thermal breakdown point. The copper costs more than the aluminium hence BMW takes what ever cost saving they can on the production line from their suppliers. Any one that has worked in a high volume production environment will be aware of these techniques - every penny counts.
So theoretically if you drive a remapped 18i or 20i flat out for a long period of time you could get to the thermal break down point of the piston head and damage it. However this situation is highly unlikely to ever occur, but they need to design for it - I am sure someone will drive across the outback flat out for a few hours in their z4.
In order to simplify the number of spare parts that have to be supplied and managed only one piston, that with the highest copper mix from the 28i is made available in the spare parts catalog. That is why when you look at real OEM or check the spare part numbers from the dealer there is only ever one listed and let face it they do not care about saving you a few $$$ on what you need to pay for spares.
This reminds me - I need to post about my remap experience! If you are in two minds about a remap....do it!! - Unless you plan to drive at 155mph for 2 hours across a dessert
The pistons on the 18i, 20i and 28i are physically identical to look at however they use a different material mix for each car on the production line to save costs. The higher the engine output the more copper is mixed with the aluminium of the piston head when it is cast to increase its thermal breakdown point. The copper costs more than the aluminium hence BMW takes what ever cost saving they can on the production line from their suppliers. Any one that has worked in a high volume production environment will be aware of these techniques - every penny counts.
So theoretically if you drive a remapped 18i or 20i flat out for a long period of time you could get to the thermal break down point of the piston head and damage it. However this situation is highly unlikely to ever occur, but they need to design for it - I am sure someone will drive across the outback flat out for a few hours in their z4.
In order to simplify the number of spare parts that have to be supplied and managed only one piston, that with the highest copper mix from the 28i is made available in the spare parts catalog. That is why when you look at real OEM or check the spare part numbers from the dealer there is only ever one listed and let face it they do not care about saving you a few $$$ on what you need to pay for spares.
This reminds me - I need to post about my remap experience! If you are in two minds about a remap....do it!! - Unless you plan to drive at 155mph for 2 hours across a dessert
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Anonymous
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Pyranha said:Pdondar I also thought the same as you that it was a pure marketing exercise. However I spoke to an engineer in Munich HQ before I got mine re-mapped - There is a difference between the engines.
The pistons on the 18i, 20i and 28i are physically identical to look at however they use a different material mix for each car on the production line to save costs. The higher the engine output the more copper is mixed with the aluminium of the piston head when it is cast to increase its thermal breakdown point. The copper costs more than the aluminium hence BMW takes what ever cost saving they can on the production line from their suppliers. Any one that has worked in a high volume production environment will be aware of these techniques - every penny counts.
So theoretically if you drive a remapped 18i or 20i flat out for a long period of time you could get to the thermal break down point of the piston head and damage it. However this situation is highly unlikely to ever occur, but they need to design for it - I am sure someone will drive across the outback flat out for a few hours in their z4.
In order to simplify the number of spare parts that have to be supplied and managed only one piston, that with the highest copper mix from the 28i is made available in the spare parts catalog. That is why when you look at real OEM or check the spare part numbers from the dealer there is only ever one listed and let face it they do not care about saving you a few $$$ on what you need to pay for spares.
This reminds me - I need to post about my remap experience! If you are in two minds about a remap....do it!! - Unless you plan to drive at 155mph for 2 hours across a dessert
Hi, that all sounds plausible but...
Given that the engine block serial number only denotes serial production, how do you know which engine had the magic pistons..
Ie each engine is stamp N20B20 there is no stamping for 18i 20i 28i ..
It would imply that each engine would have a secret table of parts in the BMW bunker that no one else knew about...
Pbondar said:Pyranha said:Pdondar I also thought the same as you that it was a pure marketing exercise. However I spoke to an engineer in Munich HQ before I got mine re-mapped - There is a difference between the engines.
The pistons on the 18i, 20i and 28i are physically identical to look at however they use a different material mix for each car on the production line to save costs. The higher the engine output the more copper is mixed with the aluminium of the piston head when it is cast to increase its thermal breakdown point. The copper costs more than the aluminium hence BMW takes what ever cost saving they can on the production line from their suppliers. Any one that has worked in a high volume production environment will be aware of these techniques - every penny counts.
So theoretically if you drive a remapped 18i or 20i flat out for a long period of time you could get to the thermal break down point of the piston head and damage it. However this situation is highly unlikely to ever occur, but they need to design for it - I am sure someone will drive across the outback flat out for a few hours in their z4.
In order to simplify the number of spare parts that have to be supplied and managed only one piston, that with the highest copper mix from the 28i is made available in the spare parts catalog. That is why when you look at real OEM or check the spare part numbers from the dealer there is only ever one listed and let face it they do not care about saving you a few $$$ on what you need to pay for spares.
This reminds me - I need to post about my remap experience! If you are in two minds about a remap....do it!! - Unless you plan to drive at 155mph for 2 hours across a dessert
Hi, that all sounds plausible but...
Given that the engine block serial number only denotes serial production, how do you know which engine had the magic pistons..
Ie each engine is stamp N20B20 there is no stamping for 18i 20i 28i ..
It would imply that each engine would have a secret table of parts in the BMW bunker that no one else knew about...
+1, I’d want to see proof of this (speaking to a mysterious unnamed engineer doesn’t count)
I’m also yet to see evidence of molten 18i & 20i engines :?
Far from saving bmw money by fitting pistons with less copper content, it would cost bmw more by complicating the assembly process.
I also heard someone say Elvis was still alive & living on the moon, but until I’ve seen proper evidence I’m calling it bullsh*t :roll:
Rob
Rob and Pbondar - I knew this information would be met with scepticism, but I thought it would be useful to share, even if I can not prove it to you.
I had assumed that the engine production line just built identical 2.0ltr engines and shipped them to the various car production sites. The final power output could then be determined at the end of the line when they were programmed depending on model demand. This would be the most efficient production method, so I was surprised to hear they differentiated the pistons and no other parts.
Pbondar - I hope to make it along to a Scottish meet up next year - I will explain what I do for a living, will help to clarify my source.
I had assumed that the engine production line just built identical 2.0ltr engines and shipped them to the various car production sites. The final power output could then be determined at the end of the line when they were programmed depending on model demand. This would be the most efficient production method, so I was surprised to hear they differentiated the pistons and no other parts.
Pbondar - I hope to make it along to a Scottish meet up next year - I will explain what I do for a living, will help to clarify my source.
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Pyranha said:
Hi there, look forward to meeting up, please don’t take my observations as a rejection / criticism per se,...just trying to separate fact / fiction...
When I look at the US technical documentation which appears to be relatively transparent / open about the engine / chassis etc there is nothing to suggest such an approach...also as someone who has had to deal with turbo charged engines that were on the limit in another life, the hypothesis suggested seems at odds with the necessity for field support / explanation of these..of course the US market had but one variant of the N20 for the Z4 ie the 28i unit...so they could choose to skip that detail...
It seeems that no one else has stated this in the public domain...save doing a chemical analysis of e such pistons from 3 such engines it’s difficuit to conclusively say one way or another..
All manufacturers have secret safes with some naughty secrets so to say it is impossible would be too assumptive..
However I await more proof...it’s intersting to note that most failures have come from cylinder head failures where piston related issues do not appear to be directly correlated...
Still great theory, pity it was not April 1st?
