Pushing a 2.5Se passed 200bhp

[zriha]

Mine is 2003. M54B25 2.5 ccm, 192 HP. The previous owner did a good remap of the ECU, standardized, to give 208-210 HP. So that's something over 200 HP. But I would side, road wise, there is no difference, only personal feeling. Compare it with normal E85 2.5 192 HP and on personal (not objective measurement that we didn't do), it is much more responsive and has more torque in the lower range of RPM.

But this is just I would say cosmetics. It is even a small difference between 3.0 and 2.5, when you are around 200 HP, the only next step that will noticeably show result is a 260+HP club. Everything between is a really small difference, we talk in 0.1-0.4 sec better 0-100 km/h, and you know that in real life it is tough to tell, everything counts, the road, tires, temperature, humidity and eventually, your start.

 

[tomscott]

As the title says, I'm wondering if anyone has any feedback on getting a 2.5se e85 passed 200bhp.
I'm aware horsepower isn't the end all be all and admittedly a 17 year old car is likely to have lost some horses along the way but more as a project I'd like to see if I can get a 2.5se to 210 or 215.

Any input is appreciated!

Better off buying a bigger engined car than trying to find gains with NA engines, lots of work and money and very little gain.

There have been loads of threads over the years on this with lots of empty wallets and disappointment.

 

[Dr. Zed]

Go on the quantum website and do a search, there are literally hundreds of franchised garages around the country where you can have it done,you won't have to go far for sure..my nearest was 8 miles away with another dozen or more within 20 miles, generally if you book with the garage direct once you find a local one they will do it cheaper than the website quote

Thought I replied to this. Might have forgotten to hit submit and closed the page.
Anyways, had a look and there appears to be about 4 within 20 miles and one that's just 2 miles.
Their website is saying that for the £250 remap I'll get 215bhp and 260Nm so oddly more bhp percentage gain than torque. But again aware they're all speculative numbers and it's quite an old car at this stage. Still interesting mind.

 

[Dr. Zed]

Increasing torque and introducing higher component stress forces in a 17 yr old drivetrain is just asking for trouble imo, especially an automatic.
Just leave it alone, enjoy it for what it is and ignore any suggestions to start tw@tting about with it.

I started the topic more as a way to find information and to see whether it could be done. I can't imagine that pushing less than 10% of either bhp or torque through a car like this would significantly compromise the drive train, chassis, suspension etc.
For the price I doubt I'd go down this route anyways but its certainly interesting to talk to forum members about their thoughts

 

[Dr. Zed]

Doesn't the V5 show power output, in kW ?
I'd have to dig mine out to check...

It might do, good point. I'll have a look but I think it's safe to say that i have a 2.5i since the si wasn't produced till two years after my car was built and the lower power 2.5i engine was only in the facelift from what I gather. So since I have a 2004 preface lift it stands to reason I have a 2.5i with a 189bhp engine.

 

[Dr. Zed]

Mine is 2003. M54B25 2.5 ccm, 192 HP. The previous owner did a good remap of the ECU, standardized, to give 208-210 HP. So that's something over 200 HP. But I would side, road wise, there is no difference, only personal feeling. Compare it with normal E85 2.5 192 HP and on personal (not objective measurement that we didn't do), it is much more responsive and has more torque in the lower range of RPM.

But this is just I would say cosmetics. It is even a small difference between 3.0 and 2.5, when you are around 200 HP, the only next step that will noticeably show result is a 260+HP club. Everything between is a really small difference, we talk in 0.1-0.4 sec better 0-100 km/h, and you know that in real life it is tough to tell, everything counts, the road, tires, temperature, humidity and eventually, your start.

I plan on getting a 3.0 at some point and maybe working to an //M so it's definitely on the books to get passed the 200 that way

 

[enuff_zed]

My wife's is a 53-plate 2.5i. The badge just says 2.5i, nothing more than that. I may be wrong, but i think there was only that one option with the M54 engine, giving 192BHP (when new)

Mine is a 04 but I don't have a manual unfortunately. It'd be nice if the the mot check site gave this information too.
So seems from everything that's been mentioned here I have a 2.5i then and can't have a lower output 2.5i since they're facelifts and I don't have an si since they were produced only past the age of my car.
Thanks for the info!

No prob........................ in return, let me know how a remap works out for you.
May sneak one into the budget as it's a management vehicle :wink:

 

[enuff_zed]

Go on the quantum website and do a search, there are literally hundreds of franchised garages around the country where you can have it done,you won't have to go far for sure..my nearest was 8 miles away with another dozen or more within 20 miles, generally if you book with the garage direct once you find a local one they will do it cheaper than the website quote

Thought I replied to this. Might have forgotten to hit submit and closed the page.
Anyways, had a look and there appears to be about 4 within 20 miles and one that's just 2 miles.
Their website is saying that for the £250 remap I'll get 215bhp and 260Nm so oddly more bhp percentage gain than torque. But again aware they're all speculative numbers and it's quite an old car at this stage. Still interesting mind.

I would also look at their graphs, as you may find the gains are all way up the rev range where you'll never use it.
Wads of torque between 1500 & 3500 is the best bet for making an on the road difference (just in my opinion)

 

[mr.tourette]

Go on the quantum website and do a search, there are literally hundreds of franchised garages around the country where you can have it done,you won't have to go far for sure..my nearest was 8 miles away with another dozen or more within 20 miles, generally if you book with the garage direct once you find a local one they will do it cheaper than the website quote

Thought I replied to this. Might have forgotten to hit submit and closed the page.
Anyways, had a look and there appears to be about 4 within 20 miles and one that's just 2 miles.
Their website is saying that for the £250 remap I'll get 215bhp and 260Nm so oddly more bhp percentage gain than torque. But again aware they're all speculative numbers and it's quite an old car at this stage. Still interesting mind.

I would also look at their graphs, as you may find the gains are all way up the rev range where you'll never use it.
Wads of torque between 1500 & 3500 is the best bet for making an on the road difference (just in my opinion)

in my experience it definitely feels more in the midrange, 3-5.5k n52 engine tho mind

 

[Pondrew]

A high flow panel air filter is the cheapest upgrade. You get more air in, you get a bigger and better bang.

 

[Dr. Zed]

No prob........................ in return, let me know how a remap works out for you.
May sneak one into the budget as it's a management vehicle :wink:

I'll be sure to post a thread about my experience when/if I get it done!

 

[Dr. Zed]

I would also look at their graphs, as you may find the gains are all way up the rev range where you'll never use it.
Wads of torque between 1500 & 3500 is the best bet for making an on the road difference (just in my opinion)

This is a good point. I'd rather get more torque in the mid range than 20 extra bhp at 5500 or 6000 RPM where I rarely push the car to.

 

[Zedebee]

Pre facelift cars came in 2.0 4-cyl, 2.2i, 2.5i (192bhp) and 3.0i. Surely the lowest cost route to 200bhp+ is simply to trade up to a 3.0i or a post facelift 2.5Si (216bhp)?

 

[Dr. Zed]

in my experience it definitely feels more in the midrange, 3-5.5k n52 engine tho mind

Well mid range is where I'd ideally be looking for any changes, especially if I did want this to translate to any tangible results on the road.

 

[patriot66]

You say your car is an '04 plate in which case it is almost certain that your VANOS system will be completely defunct or only partially working. Spend your money on a VANOS rebuild kit and do it yourself or pay a specialist to rebuild it for you. You will find levels of torque that are at the moment completely missing from your engine. I rebuilt the VANOS on my 2.5i last year and wish I had done so years ago ! Definitely well worth doing

 

[brillomaster]

Not much you can do to increase midrange torque in an naturally aspirated engine... most conventional power mods are about removing air and fuel restrictions, and making power close to the redline. Possibly at the detriment of midrange torque.

To get more midrange, you either need bigger displacement (ie switch to a 3 litre) or add boost.

Also, to get the most out of any NA engine, it needs to be revved!

 

[enuff_zed]

You say your car is an '04 plate in which case it is almost certain that your VANOS system will be completely defunct or only partially working. Spend your money on a VANOS rebuild kit and do it yourself or pay a specialist to rebuild it for you. You will find levels of torque that are at the moment completely missing from your engine. I rebuilt the VANOS on my 2.5i last year and wish I had done so years ago ! Definitely well worth doing

A very good point indeed. Did exactly this on wifey's 2.5i. Then reset the adaptations. After about 100 miles it was noticeably smoother. After 500 miles the fuel consumption had improved by about 3mpg, which I guess would come down to the recovered torque (it's an auto, so that may affect it too)

In short OP, it seems that whilst you asked how to get 200bhp from your motor, you have instead been given many ways you can make the car run, feel and perform better. Decisions, decisions.... :wink:

 

[skelters]

There's rumoured to be a legend the townspeople talk about on here sometimes. Whether it's legend, myth or the ravings of madmen and women we'll probably never know.

The legend goes that there was once a brave but foolhardy individual who had a Z4 roadster but wanted more speed. The car was hardly used and cleaned to within 1 micron of paint depth any time it was taken out for a drive.

The legend continues to say that our hero proclaimed from the rooftops that the Z4 would have a turbo fitted and that Z4M drivers would be quaking in their driving footwear at the thought of this lowly 2.0 or 2.2 Z4 beating them at the traffic light grand Prix. How the townspeople laughed, pointed at him.

Carved in stone tablets, the legend says that the car was in a garage somewhere in the sprawling mountains of Norfolk. The car was guarded by a fire breathing dragon, crocodiles and piranha infested swamps.

The fierce beasts were very attached to the Z4 and wouldn't let our hero get the car back even though it was now probably useless and the engine probably in bits. However, he did eventually get the car back.

After all that it's said that on dark, wet and windy nights you can still hear the Z4 turbo spooling and the noise from a fake dump valve along with the maniacal laughter of the ghost driver who pilots the haunted Z4 across B Roads.

Opinions vary on whether it was actually completed or it was all fantasy but somewhere there may or may not be a Z4 with a burgundy roof that was once almost, nearly, could have been fitted with a turbo.

 

[enuff_zed]

the sprawling mountains of Norfolk.

Every single word was completely believable except these five!

 

[skelters]

the sprawling mountains of Norfolk.

Every single word was completely believable except these five!

What do I know. I'm just passing on the legend to the younger townsfolk.