Please let me know what you think this refurb may be worth?

[jontZ4M]

Hey guys,

I was hoping you would be kind enough to look over my most recent car refurb and let me know your thoughts as to how much $ the refurb would be worth as a service?

A bit of background: I've been refurbing cars for 15 years, on and off, as a hobby. My first attempts were pretty dire, but I've learned by trial and error and they are now up to a good standard.

I use a couple of trusted MOT'ers to check over the cars for safety once I've finished then, and they both independently tell me that the refurbs are now a standard where I should be offering them as a service.

And that's where I've got to so far.

These refurbs take a huge amount of hours to do, and there are no real shortcuts if you want to keep the quality, so at this point I need to find out if this is a finnacially viable service, or has to remain a hobby.

Here are my latest two refurbs, which I've done to different specs:

BMW Z4M: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.637453398797294&type=3

Mazda Mx-5: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.559007863308515&type=3

I've come from a 1990's Japanese car background. The Z4M was my first BMW, it was a real challenge but fun.

In case you don't get time to look at the refurb threads, here is my current refurb spec:

Body:
1) back to bare metal where required, or all if requested, treated where necessary. Then
2) 2 x coats epoxy anti-corrosion primer. Then
3) either,
3a) 1-4 x coats underseal(thickness varies with location on body) and leave it there. (shown on mx-5 rerfurb) Or
3b) 1 x coat underseal followed by 3 x coats epoxy body colour base coat followed by epoxy clear coat. (shown on Z4M refurb)

Wishbones/Braces/AR Bars/Subframes/Shields: glass or vapour blasted then powder coated satin black.

Hubs: disassembled then mechanically and/or acid stripped then zinc primer then metal paint.

Driveshafts/Propshaft/Diff/Brackets etc: mechanically stripped then zinc primer then metal paint.

Brakes: usually just a clean up, no refurb. (there are other companies specialising in this)

Shocks: usually not disassembled. Struts stripped then zinc primer then metal paint.

Bolts: usually not changed unless un-serviceable or single-use items.

Bushes/drop links/ball joints/ties: changed for new items.

Brake/Fuel pips: replaced if they are metal.

*overall I settled on a spec that I think gives good all round protection and looks good, but doesn't go overboard on the hours required.


Please let me know what you think this service could be worth, also any criticisms of the builds?

FYI - this is not just for BMWs but any car.

Much appreciated.

 

[john-e89]

I think the problem you’ll have is who will pay for that level of resto Jont, no one’s going have an mx5 done to that level, maybe the odd M, but I think most want a general clean up rather than a concourse rebuild.

 

[enuff_zed]

Correct me if I've read it wrong, but are you saying you go to all that effort then refit the original dampers? :?

 

[brillomaster]

Well... id work on £100 an hour, plus parts. So... depends how long things take...

Perhaps some owners might want a body repaired/repainted, some might want a mechanical/chassis restoration, some might want both.

But vehicle restoring isnt normally that cheap a service, so who would actually want it done might vary. Though... old japanese cars might be a good place to start... they rust a lot underneath, but some can be quite valuable if restored nicely. Plenty of old 1990ish cars out there with owners who might like them restored.

 

[ARCS]

Correct me if I've read it wrong, but are you saying you go to all that effort then refit the original dampers? :?

My thoughts, also. :scratchhead:

 

[plenty]

In fairness to OP I think he's been focusing on a pure cosmetic resto to begin with. I'm sure owners who have the means to fund one will know whether or not they want to replace their dampers, and more than likely will be on refreshed dampers already.

Echo comments above the the most lucrative market for this will be modern classics that are worth big money - JDM models, Cosworths, etc. Sourcing parts might be a challenge though.

 

[Pondy]

Well... id work on £100 an hour, plus parts.

You wouldn't get any work then. £4,000 a week?
It is so labour intensive you would price yourself out of every market almost instantly.

There is a very 'high end' automotive upholsterers near me, who will only work on very expensive old classics and vintage stuff. They are very very expensive and charge £500 per day (per person) on a labour only rate.

 

[jontZ4M]

Correct me if I've read it wrong, but are you saying you go to all that effort then refit the original dampers? :?

Correct. Reason being that most cars I've worked on have relatively new aftermarket coilovers that don't need touching OR they just supply a new set to be fitted during refurb. For instance, an entirely new set of adjustable coilovers for Nissan Silvia is or was around £500. So there's never really been a reason to do much to shocks in general for most cars I've worked on. That may change.

 

[jontZ4M]

Well... id work on £100 an hour, plus parts. So... depends how long things take...

I haven't thought of an hourly rate, but if I did, I would try to make it affordable, £40-50 maybe.

 

[jontZ4M]

Regards total price per car, I've looked around at established companies that provide a roughly similar service, although they all vary a bit. But total prices were £11k-20k. I best not say which companies just in case.

If things did move ahead, my gut says to charge around £5k + materials. Materials are usually £1000-1500 from previous builds I've done but could vary.

 

[jontZ4M]

The next car I'm getting in next week is a friend's car. It's a Nissan Silvia. It's worth about £35k in today's market. So my thoughts are that £6k isn't too much to remove 25 years of wear/corrosion.

 

[Pondy]

Well... id work on £100 an hour, plus parts. So... depends how long things take...

I haven't thought of an hourly rate, but if I did, I would try to make it affordable, £40-50 maybe.

Having owned a small company in the 'service sector' for over 30 years I would advise to avoid 'hourly rates' as much as possible.
No matter what the rate may be many will always think it's too expensive.
I have always found customers are happier with a 'price for the job', even if it works out at a higher hourly rate (which they don't need to know, or will generally ask).
There will always be 'swings and roundabouts' doing it on a 'quote' basis, but it should even out if you know what you are doing when it comes to finances.

 

[ed80]

Redish offer a similar service. Prices start in the 5 figure range with them, but they have a very good reputation, and it includes the RACP reinforcement that they are somewhat famous for. They have a few videos showing what they include at that price: https://www.youtube.com/@RedishMotorsportbmw/videos

I think 6k for this service is pretty reasonable for a Z4M.

 

[Justino]

Great job. For my OCD, I would say go for a slightly lower gloss black as that would be more OEM, and fit new caliper retaining clips. Mine were new, but had them cerakoted whilst the calipers were being done. I also had the brake line clips done in silver to hopefully delay corrosion.

didn't paint anything, just cleaned and used a rust product on the swinging arm, dust shield etc which turns it black - buys me a bit more time before it needs a full strip and paint.



These are the fronts which I did as well

 

[jontZ4M]

Having owned a small company in the 'service sector' for over 30 years I would advise to avoid 'hourly rates' as much as possible.
No matter what the rate may be many will always think it's too expensive.

Duly noted.

Redish offer a similar service. Prices start in the 5 figure range with them, but they have a very good reputation, and it includes the RACP reinforcement that they are somewhat famous for.

Thanks Ed, yes I am aware of Redish. As far as I can see they are the top notch for BMW refurb etc. I would obviously fit in below them in terms of product, but obviously much more affordable.

I just looked at the RACP. Impressive stuff. I do body welding, but I wouldn't be confident to try to duplicate that, especially as I would not be specialising in BMW.

Great job. For my OCD, I would say go for a slightly lower gloss black as that would be more OEM, and fit new caliper retaining clips. Mine were new, but had them cerakoted whilst the calipers were being done. I also had the brake line clips done in silver to hopefully delay corrosion.
didn't paint anything, just cleaned and used a rust product on the swinging arm, dust shield etc which turns it black - buys me a bit more time before it needs a full strip and paint.

Thanks Justino.

- yes noted on the paint colour.
- yes I still use rust converter in some places where the rust has penetrated and pitted into the steel and can not be fully removed, but does not justify welding. I'll then just prime and paint over it as normal. I've never had a problem with rust re-occuring in these small areas.
- your brake refurb looks fantastic! Thus far I've not refurbed the calipers in the complete refurbs that I've done. I've done it separately on other small projects, but never on full refurb. The main reason is that A) it chews up hours and B) with most of the cars that I've dealt wit it simply ends up being cheaper to buy pre-refurbed calipers and use those. Same with the shocks conversation above, most of the time it's just cheaper to buy aftermarket shocks rather than disassemble and refurb the originals. This may not apply so much for the BMWs I understand. But I'd certainly be up for refurbing the calipers if asked to.