Plans to supercharge - Questions about process

[igeak691]

Hi everyone,

I'm in the process of planning a supercharger setup on my 2003 bmw z4 3.0i. Instead of buying an M, I really want to get down and dirty and supercharge mainly as a learning experience but also to enjoy my first car that was ever supercharged. I have a couple questions in mind that I have not been able to find answers for, hoping to hear from the experts here.

1. I'm thinking about buying a used setup (if I can find one.. new is just too expensive for me at this point). What should I be looking out for to assess the quality of the kit as well as its condition?

2. Many websites say that it takes 8-10hrs and the process is fully reversible. So.. is it fully reversible? And while I have all the tools possibly needed, what should I prepare for that may make the process take longer than 10hrs (I'm going to give myself 15-20hrs since I've never done a supercharger install before).

3. ESS vs VF, which lends itself to be less work to install, in terms of fit and finish?

4. Will passing inspection be made more difficult with the install?

Thanks for the help, hoping to have it done by next summer, and will probably do it after a large snowstorm and the car is sitting in the garage anyway. I have no trouble handling tools, and have a long history working on my car so I don't see any issues with that. Really more with unforseen issues such as needing to have stuff fabricated, for example. Thanks.

 

[spun]

hi man, i have a superhchargerd z4 3.0 like you want. I m from Spain, and make the conversion 2months ago.
1. buying a used setup is not recommended if it your first supercharged because you need to buy the softwar before, to vf or ess and pay the hex cable , the tune +cable is about 1000euros, the kit is about 4,5k euro.
2. i havent got any idea about engine cars and install in 7 days +-(3 long weeknds),why? because sometimes you do not know how to do the things and have to ask and wait...
3. i install vf, is good, i have to tell you that if you bored of the 3.0i supercharger with vf you can buy an z4m and install the same bracket and supercharger, vf told me that are the same, dont know if eess is the same.
4. i hope to pass inspec tion, you have to hide the supercharger with the oem intake. the ess kit is more similar than oem but i think visual inspection will be ok with those superchargers, this are m
ine

 

[GuidoK]

I think you have to be really careful to buy a 2nd hand supercharger kit.
Usually the prices the sellers want for it are not worth it imho. Obviously this depends on the individual deal you'd be able to make.
But ESS has a pretty good deal on their new VT1 system. (but expect to pay VAT when it is delivered at your doorstep, just as stuff coming from the usa)

As spun already said: you'd have to buy a tune (600-1000 euro). But also you need to have a close look at the supercharger history.
Most kits use a centrifugal supercharger. They are pretty delicate and because they spin very fast, they require rebuilds more often than a roots or twinscrew supercharger (they last almost forever because they make much less revs).
So I wouldn't buy a tatty old 40k miles kit from some old e46.
Actually buying a kit that comes from an e46 is a risk in general. It might be that some brackets or bolts or hoses are slightly different. And some parts are very very expensive. A piece of custom made silicone hose can cost £300 or so. A cast aluminium airduct is far more expensive and they might also be different between e46 and e85.

The ESS TS kits are much more difficult to install. More work. You have to dismantle some of the wiring loom and tape that up, install a different manifold, fabricate some custom hoses etc etc. Also I don't recommend the TS1 kit without the chargecooler tbh. Too much risk of heat&pinging imho.
The TS kits are slightly different between e46 and e85.

As for the passing of legal inspections, this differs greatly from country to country.

The worst part from buying 2nd had is that you dont have warranty/support. Especially support is very important.
Also I don't recommend superchargers for daily drives (or any serious tuning for that matter). Maybe if you have a backup vehicle you'd be willing to use for a month or more at any time of the year and your annual mileage is low.

 

[pokeybritches]

1. Don't buy used except under very specific conditions (you know the kit and seller personally, or you have a shop that's going to do a side by side swap). Do not buy an E46 kit.

2. Multiply the expected installation time by 2 or 3 depending on how competent you are. However, don't expect to get it done in a weekend. A month is more likely. You'll get stuck and need help, parts will break upon removal and you'll have to order new ones, etc.

3. A non-intercooled centrifugal kit is the easiest to install. That doesn't make it easy though. You need baseline mechanical knowledge to be successful. Knowing things like MAF orientation matters, how to swap fuel injectors, and so on will save a lot of headaches, so have someone knowledgeable to lean on.

4. Depends on your local laws.

Bonus - the ESS twin screw kit effectively gives you twice the power increase of a centrifugal kit, if both are running the same peak boost. Peak numbers will be similar, but the increase of "area under the curve" will be twice as much with the twin screw due to the extra bottom end. When you compare a $4400 centrifugal kit to a $5300 TS1 (local prices over here), the twin screw looks like the better deal. I would go with the TS2, because a lot of what you're paying for is the R&D it took to develop the laminova cores (part of the charge cooling system inside the manifold). Adding them in later costs more than twice what it would have cost to go straight to the TS2.

 

[mac27040]

Agree with what's been said already, I have the VF version and took me 3 weekends to fit. You have to basically remove the front bumper both headlights radiator, fan, slam panel, air intake, injectors, extend MAF wiring loom, cut off to small lugs under air box but the kit is fully reversable.
As for remapping, you need to get the software matched to your car, you have to email you current setup and they will send you a modified version for you to install.
Mine passed its MOT here in England with the kit on.

 

[gwatson]

I'll reply later this morning. I had an ESS Twin Screw kit back in 2007. Now in a ///M.

 

[gwatson]

1. I'm thinking about buying a used setup (if I can find one.. new is just too expensive for me at this point). What should I be looking out for to assess the quality of the kit as well as its condition?

2. Many websites say that it takes 8-10hrs and the process is fully reversible. So.. is it fully reversible? And while I have all the tools possibly needed, what should I prepare for that may make the process take longer than 10hrs (I'm going to give myself 15-20hrs since I've never done a supercharger install before).

3. ESS vs VF, which lends itself to be less work to install, in terms of fit and finish?

4. Will passing inspection be made more difficult with the install?

I had the first ESS Twin Screw kit installed back in 2007.

1) Good luck finding a used kit I'm not seen one come up for sale since I returned here 2 years ago. And even if one did, I would be wary of the condition, missing parts and you'd still need to pay for the software. It won't work out much cheaper overall, not to mention no warranty or installation support.

2) 15-20 hours would be more realistic, to include troubleshooting time. . I didn't fit mine, but a local BMW specialist, I was however present for most of it. It did however require a trip from ESS from Norway to resolve some teething issues, it didn't make nearly as much power as it should and the car drove like a dog when cold. All resolved in the end though. When I sold the car, I put it back to standard without any issues, completely reversible.

3) I went ESS because I much preferred the concept of a twin screw over centrifugal. Much more efficient and makes a lot more boost lower down the rev range. Centrifugal generate max boost at max rpm, whines too

4) I never had any issues with MOT, Servicing etc.

As I mentioned, I returned to a ///M several years later. The Surpercharged 3.0 was quicker in a straight line, but other than that the ///M car is the one to have, no question about it. The only reason I suprerchrged was the ///M's were just released, so would have had to spend £25k to upgrade, or £6k on a supercharger. Nowadays it's a no brainer what route to go down.

///M is much more of an event to drive, looks better in and out, sounds better, handles better, brakes better, LSD as standard, better steering... the list goes on, no niggly problems either like you'll get with the SC kit.

Good luck through, it's a fun adventure and nice to have something unique, but be prepared for niggling issues.

 

[hopz121]

Ill be keeping an eye on this, something im tempted to do also, i will buy new though if i decide to do it.

Mac had you ever done anywork like this beofre?

I can fit brake claipers and do other bits but not sure if id be out of my depth with a supercharger.

 

[igeak691]

1. I'm thinking about buying a used setup (if I can find one.. new is just too expensive for me at this point). What should I be looking out for to assess the quality of the kit as well as its condition?

2. Many websites say that it takes 8-10hrs and the process is fully reversible. So.. is it fully reversible? And while I have all the tools possibly needed, what should I prepare for that may make the process take longer than 10hrs (I'm going to give myself 15-20hrs since I've never done a supercharger install before).

3. ESS vs VF, which lends itself to be less work to install, in terms of fit and finish?

4. Will passing inspection be made more difficult with the install?

I had the first ESS Twin Screw kit installed back in 2007.

1) Good luck finding a used kit I'm not seen one come up for sale since I returned here 2 years ago. And even if one did, I would be wary of the condition, missing parts and you'd still need to pay for the software. It won't work out much cheaper overall, not to mention no warranty or installation support.

2) 15-20 hours would be more realistic, to include troubleshooting time. . I didn't fit mine, but a local BMW specialist, I was however present for most of it. It did however require a trip from ESS from Norway to resolve some teething issues, it didn't make nearly as much power as it should and the car drove like a dog when cold. All resolved in the end though. When I sold the car, I put it back to standard without any issues, completely reversible.

3) I went ESS because I much preferred the concept of a twin screw over centrifugal. Much more efficient and makes a lot more boost lower down the rev range. Centrifugal generate max boost at max rpm, whines too

4) I never had any issues with MOT, Servicing etc.

As I mentioned, I returned to a ///M several years later. The Surpercharged 3.0 was quicker in a straight line, but other than that the ///M car is the one to have, no question about it. The only reason I suprerchrged was the ///M's were just released, so would have had to spend £25k to upgrade, or £6k on a supercharger. Nowadays it's a no brainer what route to go down.

///M is much more of an event to drive, looks better in and out, sounds better, handles better, brakes better, LSD as standard, better steering... the list goes on, no niggly problems either like you'll get with the SC kit.

Good luck through, it's a fun adventure and nice to have something unique, but be prepared for niggling issues.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I'm glad I made this thread.. and I've really gotta try an ///M so I don't further mod my 3.0i. It's a great car, but the lack of LSD, not so great brakes, and uncomfy ride make me want a ///M coupe pretty badly. Not sure I could justify the price difference being in the position that I am though. Will have to see how things pan out. For now I'll drive my 3.0i happily.

 

[gwatson]

You definitely should try the ///M and see what you think, problem is it's unlikely you'll be able to test drive a Supercharged Z4 to compare it too.

The ///M may cost slightly more to purchase, but it will always be worth more in the long run, not to mention the price of modding your 3.0i will always cost more than you think. I tried to sell my Supercharged Z4 for 6 months, ended up putting it back to standard and selling the charger to a guy in Canada.

 

[GuidoK]

Will have to see how things pan out. For now I'll drive my 3.0i happily.

I saw you were american.
Were you checking out this kit?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VF-engineering-bmw-e46-supercharger-kit-vortech-v3-/171978225752

Something like that is maybe worth $2-2,5k tops but as the buy it now price is 3250, the reserve will be over 2,5k I imagine.
The included ecu is worthless.

As prices for z4m's drop the sensible budget to upgrade gets smaller and smaller.
On the other hand tuning/upgrading, tinkering and personalizing is also a part of the hobby experience, so it's not 1:1 comparable to buying another car and just pay money. Everyone (with money) can do that.

As for selling a tuned car: parting out is almost always more profiteable, but more work. A lot of tuningparts have less depreciation than cars :wink:

 

[igeak691]

I didn't see any kits for sale used, but thanks for the link. Either way, I won't be buying used anymore. More than likely will just enjoy the car for what it is and maybe an ///M in the future if funds work out.

 

[mac27040]

Ill be keeping an eye on this, something im tempted to do also, i will buy new though if i decide to do it.

Mac had you ever done anywork like this beofre?

I can fit brake claipers and do other bits but not sure if id be out of my depth with a supercharger.

I have built engines in the past but the kit is very easy to fit, if you can take your front bumper off and undo some bolts then you should be fine. The only bit tricky was soldering and heat shrinking the wiring for the MAF which needs extending, but its 4 wires.

 

[bony_13]

Subscribed to this thread as it's something I'm interested in next year. Mac we chatted quite a bit about the VF kit at your meet.

For my mind there are many pros and cons, not least
+ VF kit cheaper than ESS
+ VF kit easier to fit DIY
- Would personally prefer more torque than top end i.e. prefer ESS to VF.
- An //M will be better to own and drive all round
+ Sound of a supercharger is unique
+ The whole idea is cool

I know the price of an //M is always coming down, but for me it's more about my 3.0i being a project car for me to learn some new skills on. Interior this winter. Brake upgrade in new year. Handling work in spring. Supercharger next Summer (after wedding!!)

 

[Javizquierdo]

hi man, i have a superhchargerd z4 3.0 like you want. I m from Spain, and make the conversion 2months ago.
1. buying a used setup is not recommended if it your first supercharged because you need to buy the softwar before, to vf or ess and pay the hex cable , the tune +cable is about 1000euros, the kit is about 4,5k euro.
2. i havent got any idea about engine cars and install in 7 days +-(3 long weeknds),why? because sometimes you do not know how to do the things and have to ask and wait...
3. i install vf, is good, i have to tell you that if you bored of the 3.0i supercharger with vf you can buy an z4m and install the same bracket and supercharger, vf told me that are the same, dont know if eess is the same.
4. i hope to pass inspec tion, you have to hide the supercharger with the oem intake. the ess kit is more similar than oem but i think visual inspection will be ok with those superchargers, this are m
ine

Nice to see you here!!

 

[spun]

hi man, i have a superhchargerd z4 3.0 like you want. I m from Spain, and make the conversion 2months ago.
1. buying a used setup is not recommended if it your first supercharged because you need to buy the softwar before, to vf or ess and pay the hex cable , the tune +cable is about 1000euros, the kit is about 4,5k euro.
2. i havent got any idea about engine cars and install in 7 days +-(3 long weeknds),why? because sometimes you do not know how to do the things and have to ask and wait...
3. i install vf, is good, i have to tell you that if you bored of the 3.0i supercharger with vf you can buy an z4m and install the same bracket and supercharger, vf told me that are the same, dont know if eess is the same.
4. i hope to pass inspec tion, you have to hide the supercharger with the oem intake. the ess kit is more similar than oem but i think visual inspection will be ok with those superchargers, this are m
ine

Nice to see you here!!

jaja lo mismo digo compañero!!