Pistonheads TOTD: Z4M / E46 M3 - Are they just not that fast?
- Thread starter Fishy Dave
- Start date
I've had very little track time in mine but I can't say I found it lacking when I did a couple of laps of the ring. I guess with a bit more experience/familiarity that might change though. That or I'm just becoming a big pussy 
A
Anonymous
Guest
I know what some feel,
As I've had a few pimped Audi and golfs go quickly next to me
Buuuuuuuuttt!!!!!!
Would I like to buy, own or drive a golf??
No = sterile, boring, millions on roads and 1.4d looks the same as a R
Would I like to buy own or drive an Audi???
No = sterile, boring and millions on Road
Though and R8 or RS4/6 yes please
Does my car at 2 mph pulling up and parking next to any hot hatch make them look at my car rather than theirs ???
You freaking know it!!
Plus I'm putting up a video of hind head tunnel with my supersprint decat and new Eisenmann race boxes on!!!
Tune in turn up and remind me about a hot hatch
As I've had a few pimped Audi and golfs go quickly next to me
Buuuuuuuuttt!!!!!!
Would I like to buy, own or drive a golf??
No = sterile, boring, millions on roads and 1.4d looks the same as a R
Would I like to buy own or drive an Audi???
No = sterile, boring and millions on Road
Though and R8 or RS4/6 yes please
Does my car at 2 mph pulling up and parking next to any hot hatch make them look at my car rather than theirs ???
You freaking know it!!
Plus I'm putting up a video of hind head tunnel with my supersprint decat and new Eisenmann race boxes on!!!
Tune in turn up and remind me about a hot hatch
As others said, the engine is 15-16 year old tech now, the Z4M is now 10 years old too. For its age it's plenty fast! 
You can't fight progress, faster cars are coming out all the time. Who freaking cares...? As long as you're happy with what you have then it's all good.
You can't fight progress, faster cars are coming out all the time. Who freaking cares...? As long as you're happy with what you have then it's all good.
ga41 said:As others said, the engine is 15-16 year old tech now, the Z4M is now 10 years old too. For its age it's plenty fast!
You can't fight progress, faster cars are coming out all the time. Who freaking cares...? As long as you're happy with what you have then it's all good.
In the same way a Z4M is considerably quicker than a car from a generation before it- can't have both worlds the delights of what is becoming a modern classic but with 2016 Hot Hatch performance... Unless your Beedub .
The Golf R has in many ways been a game changer not because of the outright performance but the shear number sold - it's become the GTI and with 300 bhp to boot.
Personally I really wouldn't worry about it .
:evil:I've been driving a 991.2C2S. Sure it's quicker, but the engine has zero character compared to the S54. I've hit the limiter many times too, being used to 8k 
And then there is the EPAS with zero feel and default minicab mode on the auto trans, or PDK for the marketing people. It's a great cruiser, but I'll keep my Z4M, especially roof down in this weather. Perfect!
And then there is the EPAS with zero feel and default minicab mode on the auto trans, or PDK for the marketing people. It's a great cruiser, but I'll keep my Z4M, especially roof down in this weather. Perfect!
A
Anonymous
Guest
Z4M-2006 said:
Exactly the response my fellow enthusiasts provide when I whatsapp'd them yesterday. Standard car forum these days - full of (usually young) idiots, so you add to the ignore list daily/create a group of level headed people and chat over another medium instead!
Having said that, this forum does appear a tad more mature than most, thankfully.
Guys, its been touched on - its about character.
I've had faster cars before, including a 2 Litre Westy that was over 300 BHP/ton, but can you really use the performance of these "Modern" performance cars on the public roads? everything is being done to slow people down now. Its got to be about the experience and enjoyment surely, not just how quickly you can get to 60 !!
Back in the day I had a 911 (993) with 285BHP, nothing by todays standards but such a great car to drive, the sound and feel were fantastic but not fast by modern standards.
I love my Z and drive it almost exclusively with the top down and at moderate speeds, just to enjoy the experience that you don't get in your modern souped up boxes, but its plenty fast enough when I want it or need it to be..
Must be getting old
I've had faster cars before, including a 2 Litre Westy that was over 300 BHP/ton, but can you really use the performance of these "Modern" performance cars on the public roads? everything is being done to slow people down now. Its got to be about the experience and enjoyment surely, not just how quickly you can get to 60 !!
Back in the day I had a 911 (993) with 285BHP, nothing by todays standards but such a great car to drive, the sound and feel were fantastic but not fast by modern standards.
I love my Z and drive it almost exclusively with the top down and at moderate speeds, just to enjoy the experience that you don't get in your modern souped up boxes, but its plenty fast enough when I want it or need it to be..
Must be getting old
NavZ said:https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Co9Z2fIqh-A
I think its telling that BMW release a 2016 M2 with around 370bhp. Clear endorsement for more bhp isn't necessarily needed. Take a Cayman S, around 350..kinda opposite to the audi model of every model has to be faster and faster than the last. (And who have been selling understeer to the masses for years
)I personally feel that on the road over 300bhp and average weight, its guaranteed to be fun.
TBH its not that they aren't quick. Even by todays standards sub 5 sec is quick IMO.
The thing that has changed is the way power is delivered and unless you can have 150% throttle and pinned back in your seats in any gear its seen as slow in these turbo days. But not necessarily fun.
The market is telling all you can get a 3YO M135 for 15-16k but your looking at a 100k Z4M C for the same price...
I haven't really experienced this sort of power yet apart from my 15 Mini Cooper S (which btw has had two engines, gear boxes and clutch/flywheels in 11k miles.... so if your thinking of buying one don't because they are mechanically s**t and desperate to get rid)
Its not stupidly powerful but its great fun to drive power in every gear but its not overly rewarding. Ive never commuted and my Z4M C was purely a fun weekend car but I ended up driving it about 6-8k a year regardless, mostly for fun, my job was a 5 minute walk.
Ive just moved to Manchester and now I need something to commute in, so a turbo auto is on my horizon simply because in traffic they are so much easier to drive the older M cars. They are a nightmare I would have hated to commute in my M whereas a 35i will be quick comfy, GTish and will still be fun for the weekend with the top down. Although I have grilled them in the past, for an all rounded car you can't do much better from what I've seen on the market currently. If it were purely for the weekend then something like the M ticks all boxes and I wouldn't hesitate.
I think another reason is that all these newer cars like the M135 M235 are more capable all round cars that your less likely to wrap round a tree and can carry a kid and a load from IKEA making them great. They are half the cost in tax and servicing and are very reliable. While moving house we used my gfs Clio and its been fantastic for fitting everything in! got a 6ft mirror in it and comfortably drove down whereas in the M or an E89 I would struggle to get two suitcase in. This makes these high performance hatches really a great option.
For me the older days of 'hot hatches' was a bit of disappointment. When I passed my test the MK5 Golf GTI was all the rage but the price bracket for me and my friends was the MK3 and was probably the worst ever made. They weren't overly quick with the little engines and the insurance was insane, whereas the M cars were about the same to insure for me and had about 150hp more which is why I ended up in one.
Now these hot hatches have 6cyl and over 300hp and I think its made the market a much more exciting prospect. But what is missing is the special nature of these cars which you don't find in anything but the race derived M cars.
At the same time being a prospective buyer it completely puts me off buying another M car because they have all gone into the stratosphere in terms of price. They are over 10 years old most have high milage and you will need to spend money to protect your investment making them pretty unattractive. The thought of spending 18k on a 53 plate M3 with 70k on it or 15k for a 100k Z4MC is just bonkers IMO have to be desperate to have an M experience to buy one.
The thing that has changed is the way power is delivered and unless you can have 150% throttle and pinned back in your seats in any gear its seen as slow in these turbo days. But not necessarily fun.
The market is telling all you can get a 3YO M135 for 15-16k but your looking at a 100k Z4M C for the same price...
I haven't really experienced this sort of power yet apart from my 15 Mini Cooper S (which btw has had two engines, gear boxes and clutch/flywheels in 11k miles.... so if your thinking of buying one don't because they are mechanically s**t and desperate to get rid)
Its not stupidly powerful but its great fun to drive power in every gear but its not overly rewarding. Ive never commuted and my Z4M C was purely a fun weekend car but I ended up driving it about 6-8k a year regardless, mostly for fun, my job was a 5 minute walk.
Ive just moved to Manchester and now I need something to commute in, so a turbo auto is on my horizon simply because in traffic they are so much easier to drive the older M cars. They are a nightmare I would have hated to commute in my M whereas a 35i will be quick comfy, GTish and will still be fun for the weekend with the top down. Although I have grilled them in the past, for an all rounded car you can't do much better from what I've seen on the market currently. If it were purely for the weekend then something like the M ticks all boxes and I wouldn't hesitate.
I think another reason is that all these newer cars like the M135 M235 are more capable all round cars that your less likely to wrap round a tree and can carry a kid and a load from IKEA making them great. They are half the cost in tax and servicing and are very reliable. While moving house we used my gfs Clio and its been fantastic for fitting everything in! got a 6ft mirror in it and comfortably drove down whereas in the M or an E89 I would struggle to get two suitcase in. This makes these high performance hatches really a great option.
For me the older days of 'hot hatches' was a bit of disappointment. When I passed my test the MK5 Golf GTI was all the rage but the price bracket for me and my friends was the MK3 and was probably the worst ever made. They weren't overly quick with the little engines and the insurance was insane, whereas the M cars were about the same to insure for me and had about 150hp more which is why I ended up in one.
Now these hot hatches have 6cyl and over 300hp and I think its made the market a much more exciting prospect. But what is missing is the special nature of these cars which you don't find in anything but the race derived M cars.
At the same time being a prospective buyer it completely puts me off buying another M car because they have all gone into the stratosphere in terms of price. They are over 10 years old most have high milage and you will need to spend money to protect your investment making them pretty unattractive. The thought of spending 18k on a 53 plate M3 with 70k on it or 15k for a 100k Z4MC is just bonkers IMO have to be desperate to have an M experience to buy one.
My first ever car at 21 years old was a white Peugeot 205 GTI it felt stupid quick for its day it didn't have loads of power think maybe 125bhp but would kill off most cars about. If I was to drive that car now though I'd probably think it was very slow compared to modern cars with lots of torque. If you haven't driven fast cars then yes a M3 or Z4M is fast im not sure about Z4M but E46 M3 was always a car you could drive fast quite easily compared to a 330ci without the LSD etc. I drove the bmw M4 last weekend my mates just bought a black one. There's a button with a big M on it you press that and the car goes literally nuts. It's easily the fastest car I've driven, more power more torque and that's all we care about really today. Just like my old 205 GTI the M3 just isn't a quick car anymore in fact truth be known most remaped 330d can beat them at santapod in 1/4 mile. Even my mates remaped 2.0T Audi S3 beats E46 M3's and has less power and much smaller engine. You want a modern fast bmw they need a turbo these days go drive a bmw 135i they do 12s at pod all the time you would be lucky if you did a 13s run in a E46 M3. I beat a E46 M3 in my Z4 3.0i at bmw show santpod last month and wasn't that surprised as both are 0-60 in 5s. The M3 would of beat me over 1/2 mile race though I wont deny it was catching me.
