Petrol brands

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Beemingallover

Member
Shell and BP both advertise their V-Power and Ultimate brands of petrol, no doubt as also Esso do, as having additives to aid engine performance and life. However, I live near a major oil distribution depot that supplies road fuel to petrol stations in the area; road tankers branded Shell, BP, Tesco, Sainsburys can clearly be seen coming and going, not only that, but they refill from the same tanks and bays, irrespective.
I only use 99 RON, or 97 and 98 if not available. But I usually fill up with Shell V-Power, in the belief that it has additives that will enhance the engine's life and performance.
The question is if all fuels come from the same supply, effectively no separation at the depot, filing up with Shell V-Power might well be Sainsbury's 95 RON, anybody have knowledge on this?
Also, if the products are identical then trading standards are being compromised.
 
I was always led to believe the various additives were added during the process of filling the tanker? No idea how, or even if that is correct.
Cannot see how they would have got away with using the same stuff for all this time though.
 
Interesting thought there! I've always wondered that too. Surely it's all the same stuff, right?

The only real example I have of different fuel making a difference is when we put 100 octane stuff in our 987 Boxster S in Germany - wow, the thing didn't half spring to life (even though it's usually run on V-power over here) - it was like a completely different animal! I don't know if you can get 100 octane over here, let alone how much it might cost...
 
If they are all filling up from the same tanks and bays, maybe its all 95 ron petrol, and it is all the same?

I would suggest cooking 95 ron is all the same, regardless of brand. I suspect you would see vpower and momentum go to different tanks/ bays, or perhaps each brand has its own refinery for their branded, premium products.
 
Oh god not this old chestnut again. :roll:

For the different brands of petrol the refinery/distribution centres do indeed prepare a certain volume per brand including unique and sometimes generic recipes including additives such as stabilizers, anti-gelling agents, anti-corrision inhibitors and octane-boosters etc.
I spent some time at Shell Stanlow years ago and got to see the blending process for roadcar fuels and jet fuels in action.

Anyone who thinks 98 or higher octane will give their motor more 'pep' is deluding themselves.
We had an Arial Atom 'tuned' to run on 110 octane racing fuel. When we de-registered it for road use our mechanic Dave decided this would be a great idea and would give us more push coming out of the bends.
It didn't make a blind bit of difference either to our accelleration figures or to our top speed as this was determined primarily by gear ratios and downforce.

Do yourself a favour and stick to normal fuel from main retailers such as BP, Esso, Shell etc.
 
Higher Octane requires a higher compression ratio over 12 to 1 to work as it is suppose to so unless you have machined a load off your cylinder head and pocketed the pistons etc. it will not be working to its best.

Jet petrol is the home brand of Philips 66 Oil company which have a refinery in North Lincolnshire, where every other petrol company fills their road tankers up, or next door at Lindsey oil refinery.
 
Last week I emailed Shell operations UK on this specific matter using wording similar my original post here. This is their answer-


"Thank you for contacting Shell.

There are a number of factors which affect the price of fuel, many are beyond the control of companies like Shell. The price consumers pay at the pump has three main elements – the biggest is tax and duty, which fuel retailers collect on behalf of the government, the wholesale price of fuel (which includes the cost of refining oil) and operational costs such as fuel transportation and site overheads.

Shell only sets the price at the service stations we own. Approximately one third of the Shell branded network in the UK is owned by independent dealers who purchase Shell fuel from us and set their own prices.

At our Shell-owned service stations, we strive to give our customers the best value we can by providing a consistent supply of competitively-priced fuel.

Once again, thank you for taking the time to contact Shell UK."

Obviously no explanation whatsoever. Almost as if I had posed a very sensitive to a politician, who then chose to discuss the planting season for tulips!
I also contacted a motoring journal and they were unequivocal that all brands were the same quality.
So RON rating is not a significant factor and petrol grading non-existent.
 
The octane rating is simply the petrol's resistance to detonation. To get more energy out of the fuel you need to compress it more so it tends to go bang on its own. The higher octane rating resists this. On a normal road car to get the most power you need to use the lowest octane rating that'll resist detonation.
Using a higher octane fuel than the engine is designed to run can actually make it make less power.

Additives etc is another subject though.
 
Oh joy another thread on Petrol. Having read each post thus far written. guess how much I have learned. :roll:

Tis why I fill up at Tesco or Shell, or which ever busy petrol station is on hand. Just avoid the quite ones where the petrol can, I understand, go off. Sorry local rural stations, it's not just the cost. it's that your stock may be passed it's best. :|
 
I have no technical knowledge on fuel quality and whether it makes any difference. But after an issue with an Amber EML on my 2nd Coupe my ex-Sytner Indy reckoned petrol BMWs worked best on Premium fuel.

As I've got a Tesco a mile away ever since then my BMWs have always been used on Tesco Momentum 99RON and have driven fine. If I'm getting low away from home I'll use whatever Premium fuel I can find, but have noticed that Shell seem to charge a massive premium for their V-Power!
 
The ethanol content seems to vary considerably between the brands, 1% - 5%. So back to my original query on the brands being sourced from the same supply, which can't be possible if the ethanol content varies from brand to brand.
 
The only case higher octane makes a difference is in turbo cars like my old Fiat Coupe (speaking from experience!) where you have a modern Motronic system able to adjust boost, and chipped by Novitec to a laughable level! :)
On 95oct it would set the knocksensors alive, so I’d be running no more than 1.3bar (ca240hp)
Come trackday I just filled up with V-Power 99 oct and after a few km’s get 1.5bar and around 260!
Sweet. Never missed a beat that car.
 
Beemingallover said:
The ethanol content seems to vary considerably between the brands, 1% - 5%. So back to my original query on the brands being sourced from the same supply, which can't be possible if the ethanol content varies from brand to brand.
Click to expand...
Not only between brands but whether it is normal 95 or super unleaded and where you buy it. Below is from the Esso website:

The majority of unleaded 95 Octane petrol sold in the UK contains up to 5% ethanol as required under the Government’s Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO).

There is currently no requirement for renewable fuel (such as ethanol) to be present in super unleaded (97 and 99 grade petrol).

Esso super unleaded petrol (Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97 and Synergy Supreme+ 99 ) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area and Scotland). We would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of ethanol in petrol to use Synergy Supreme+ – providing they do not fill up in Devon or Cornwall, the Teesside area or Scotland. The European standard BS EN228 covers the requirements for 0-5% ethanol unleaded petrol, the labelling requirement for zero % ethanol is E5 (as is up to 5%), a E0 label doesn’t exist. We understand that this is confusing if you are looking for zero % ethanol fuel, but as advised we can confirm that our Supreme Unleaded fuel supplied in areas except those listed (Devon, Cornwall, Teeside & Scotland) is ethanol free.
 
Argenta said:
The only case higher octane makes a difference is in turbo cars like my old Fiat Coupe (speaking from experience!) where you have a modern Motronic system able to adjust boost, and chipped by Novitec to a laughable level! :)
On 95oct it would set the knocksensors alive, so I’d be running no more than 1.3bar (ca240hp)
Come trackday I just filled up with V-Power 99 oct and after a few km’s get 1.5bar and around 260!
Sweet. Never missed a beat that car.
Click to expand...

Not true, you can advance the timing more on NA cars with higher octane fuels. I made the mistake of getting my clio 182 hillclimb car mapped on 95 ron fuel and it meant it couldn't been mapped as aggressively at the top end. Second time round on shell v power, it could be mapped so the power didn't drop off at 6.5k revs and it made more power from then till the redline.

The 172 I've replaced it with has a £10k engine build, throttle bodies and a 12.5:1 compression ratio, and for sure will only run on high octane fuel.
 
Well but then you mapped it beforehand? It wouldnt produce more power just cos you changed fuel at the pumps..?
 
Shell have now replied correctly to my original query-
"My apologies for the misunderstanding and thank you for your follow up message.

You are correct that central fuel terminals like Bramhall supply many different branded service stations. Before the fuel is exported from the terminal to be taken to various service stations by tanker, different additives are added depending on who will be selling the fuel. These additives are added in pipes prior to the fuel going into the tanker. Therefore, differentiation is derived from Shell’s proprietary additives, which are added at dose rates that underpin and substantiate our claims.

For example, Shell V-Power fuel is boosted with ingredients that are designed to clean and protect engines. V-Power fuel contains molecules that target dirt and help restore engine cleanliness by removing deposits that have already formed, as well as friction reducing molecules that help reduce friction in critical parts of vehicle engines.

I hope that this helps answer your question and thanks again for getting in touch."
 
Beemingallover said:
as well as friction reducing molecules that help reduce friction in critical parts of vehicle engines.
Click to expand...

Struggling with this,

Which part of the engine would the petrol lubricate

Fuel pump and the on off valve of the injectors but can’t think of anywhere other than that you have petrol, as it would dilute the lub oil.
 
PDJ said:
Beemingallover said:
as well as friction reducing molecules that help reduce friction in critical parts of vehicle engines.
Click to expand...

Struggling with this,

Which part of the engine would the petrol lubricate

Fuel pump and the on off valve of the injectors but can’t think of anywhere other than that you have petrol, as it would dilute the lub oil.
Click to expand...
Combustion? Valves?
 
Beemingallover said:
Combustion? Valves?
Click to expand...

Combustion is a flash and bang no lub there

Valves are a hardened face seat valve stems are steel in a bronze type bush none or little lube required and if you use super market fuel the valves don’t seize up and the valve stems are sealed from the lub oil in the head, when these wear the engine smokes and uses oil
 
General rule of thumb:

1. Both fuels are good, offering 99 RON.

2. V-Power provides a smoother engine response (eg idle, power delivery etc) than Momentum.

3. Turbocharged cars mostly respond better to Momentum due to its higher alcohol mix (which provides better latent heat of vaporisation). Turbocharged owners often claim that Momentum therefore provides more low end kick than V-Power.

4. V-Power is ultimately better than Momentum as it maintains 99 RON but also has patented cleaning additives which promote engine health and longevity.
 
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