Perceived Brand hierarchy
- Thread starter Stark
- Start date
By the seaside...
Talksthetorque said:Just redressing the balance. Too much MB loving to put up with. When we were looking for a car, eventually settling with an E46 330ci sport, we looked at the equivalent merc( clk320) and it was plasticky, noisy, rusty (even at 5 yrs old) and wallowy.
Coming from a scoob, it was a step too far....
If the lease deals are good though next year.........I might be tempted in to a gla.
Oh no, I forgot the stupid handbrake, couldn't do it..
Some fine three pointers below
This ^^^
I never aspire to a manufacturer who makes vans and taxis
Tim.
Audi RS a drivers car?!! No, no and thrice no! crashy ride, under steer and 4WD rule that out.
I had a Merc C-Class. It was ok but nothing special. I think their brand hierarchy is trading on the past when they were seemingly hewn from granite (over-engineered) and possibly because the S-Class has been the corporate limo of choice for decades now.
The "big three" are all similar. They have the same sort of profit margin and the same list prices (scarily so in a cartel-type way). Yet they cut that cake slightly differently - Audi spend more on interiors and use cheaper VW underpinning, BMW do the opposite and Merc used to be more like BMW but seem to be switching back to upgrading their interior at the expense of driver enjoyment (new c-class being a prime example).
crashy ride, under steer and 4WD rule that out. I had a Merc C-Class. It was ok but nothing special. I think their brand hierarchy is trading on the past when they were seemingly hewn from granite (over-engineered) and possibly because the S-Class has been the corporate limo of choice for decades now.
The "big three" are all similar. They have the same sort of profit margin and the same list prices (scarily so in a cartel-type way). Yet they cut that cake slightly differently - Audi spend more on interiors and use cheaper VW underpinning, BMW do the opposite and Merc used to be more like BMW but seem to be switching back to upgrading their interior at the expense of driver enjoyment (new c-class being a prime example).
TitanTim said:Talksthetorque said:Just redressing the balance. Too much MB loving to put up with. When we were looking for a car, eventually settling with an E46 330ci sport, we looked at the equivalent merc( clk320) and it was plasticky, noisy, rusty (even at 5 yrs old) and wallowy.
Coming from a scoob, it was a step too far....
If the lease deals are good though next year.........I might be tempted in to a gla.
Oh no, I forgot the stupid handbrake, couldn't do it..
Some fine three pointers below
This ^^^
I never aspire to a manufacturer who makes vans and taxis
Tim.
Yup Tim.....good point
original guvnor said:Audi RS a drivers car?!! No, no and thrice no!
I had a Merc C-Class. It was ok but nothing special. I think their brand hierarchy is trading on the past when they were seemingly hewn from granite (over-engineered) and possibly because the S-Class has been the corporate limo of choice for decades now.
The "big three" are all similar. They have the same sort of profit margin and the same list prices (scarily so in a cartel-type way). Yet they cut that cake slightly differently - Audi spend more on interiors and use cheaper VW underpinning, BMW do the opposite and Merc used to be more like BMW but seem to be switching back to upgrading their interior at the expense of driver enjoyment (new c-class being a prime example).
Spot on analysis
Merc looked like they might turn the corner (no pun intended) but even the completely new A class has poor dynamics compared to 'lesser' offerings from the likes of Ford. Shame because I loved my old E class
It's funny to read some of the comments on here, I've owned a few BM's and Audi's and this is my first Merc. I'm not sure why or how Audi have become so loathed, they make pretty good cars, that for 90% of the population that just want to get from a to b in comfort are more than happy with. Quality of materials and finish is streets ahead of BMW and to some extent Mercedes. particularly on the A and B class.
If you enjoy the drive then BMW is the place to start, but it's the quality of materials that let them down, just look at the paint. However I feel JLR are starting to eclipse them all with both quality and drivability. As for Mercedes, the way people look at me and treat me when in the Merc it's quite blatant......rich totty, and is leagues ahead of BMW and Audi in class from my perception of onlookers.
1) Mercedes
2) JLR
3) Audi
4) BMW
5) Lexus
6) Volkswagen
If you enjoy the drive then BMW is the place to start, but it's the quality of materials that let them down, just look at the paint. However I feel JLR are starting to eclipse them all with both quality and drivability. As for Mercedes, the way people look at me and treat me when in the Merc it's quite blatant......rich totty, and is leagues ahead of BMW and Audi in class from my perception of onlookers.
1) Mercedes
2) JLR
3) Audi
4) BMW
5) Lexus
6) Volkswagen
I'd take an Audi over BMW any day.
I don't think 90% of drivers in this segment are interested in just getting from A to B. Otherwise BMW wouldn't be outselling Audi and Mercedes consistently. The gap hasn't narrowed in the last few years really either.
The way to see this is as follows. You buy a car for £10. Let's say that £1 is manufacturer profit, £1 is dealer profit. £1 is distribution costs, £1 is marketing costs. That leaves, say £6 for manufacturing. All that happens is that each brand decides to spend that £6 differently. Audi spend more on interior fit and finish and "cosmetics" because that is what their customers want (they would rather have cosmetic niceties than driving dynamics given a choice). BMW choose engine and handling and sportiness of character so spend a little more of their £6 on that and a little less worrying about the cosmetics because their customers prefer the driving dynamics over the other two. Mercedes have tended to oscillate between one and the other but I think occupy the "slightly older customer" profile. They all have virtually the same £6 to spend because they are all pricing the same, have similar purchasing and production costs. None is more premium than the other. The thing that dictates how premium a brand can be is the price someone is prepared to pay for the car and so as they all seem to occupy the same price band in each sector that would suggest the market sees none as better than the other. JLR I think see themselves as more premium but the market is telling them otherwise (as the discounts on the F-Type are just the latest example).
All this talk of this brand is better than that brand is nonsense. If you want a flash interior drive an Audi. If you want a less flashy car buy a Merc and if you enjoy chucking a car around buy a Beemer but let's stop the bullshit around hierarchy.
The way to see this is as follows. You buy a car for £10. Let's say that £1 is manufacturer profit, £1 is dealer profit. £1 is distribution costs, £1 is marketing costs. That leaves, say £6 for manufacturing. All that happens is that each brand decides to spend that £6 differently. Audi spend more on interior fit and finish and "cosmetics" because that is what their customers want (they would rather have cosmetic niceties than driving dynamics given a choice). BMW choose engine and handling and sportiness of character so spend a little more of their £6 on that and a little less worrying about the cosmetics because their customers prefer the driving dynamics over the other two. Mercedes have tended to oscillate between one and the other but I think occupy the "slightly older customer" profile. They all have virtually the same £6 to spend because they are all pricing the same, have similar purchasing and production costs. None is more premium than the other. The thing that dictates how premium a brand can be is the price someone is prepared to pay for the car and so as they all seem to occupy the same price band in each sector that would suggest the market sees none as better than the other. JLR I think see themselves as more premium but the market is telling them otherwise (as the discounts on the F-Type are just the latest example).
All this talk of this brand is better than that brand is nonsense. If you want a flash interior drive an Audi. If you want a less flashy car buy a Merc and if you enjoy chucking a car around buy a Beemer but let's stop the bullshit around hierarchy.