Oil service decontamination - is it snakeoil?
- Thread starter matsmith749
- Start date
San Francisco, CA
These engines are capable of 200k if serviced properly, around 20 yrs of average use, it’s a way of extracting extra cash from owners, I’m not sure that using a vegetable oil like soya is ideal, why not use a synthetic oil
My plan is sort of a hybrid of a couple of ideas.
Plan is:
-warm up engine.
-idle add a can of oil flush and idle for only half the time suggested (thinnned oil...bearing wear and all that)
-switch off and do oil change normally BUT use a cheap filter and cheap oil (read on before cringing) and do a few laps round the block.
-switch off and drop out the cheap oil and filter for good ones (I usually use Penrite as it sustained my GTO TT for 15 years in great shape while I mercilessly flogged it...I just stick to the suggested viscosity)>
I'll inspect the cheap oil and cut the filter apart maybe to look for bad signs...they cost so little.
I was quite shocked to find that a decent filter was 3X more expensive than I was expecting but given how many bad things can happen to the VANOS system alone, let alone the rest of the engine, I'm unwilling to skimp on it.
Thoughts?
Plan is:
-warm up engine.
-idle add a can of oil flush and idle for only half the time suggested (thinnned oil...bearing wear and all that)
-switch off and do oil change normally BUT use a cheap filter and cheap oil (read on before cringing) and do a few laps round the block.
-switch off and drop out the cheap oil and filter for good ones (I usually use Penrite as it sustained my GTO TT for 15 years in great shape while I mercilessly flogged it...I just stick to the suggested viscosity)>
I'll inspect the cheap oil and cut the filter apart maybe to look for bad signs...they cost so little.
I was quite shocked to find that a decent filter was 3X more expensive than I was expecting but given how many bad things can happen to the VANOS system alone, let alone the rest of the engine, I'm unwilling to skimp on it.
Thoughts?
geoffNZ said:
That seems to me (common sense, not based on being an experienced mechanic) that this could be close to best practice... flush but take it easy, then clean out the engine (and the flush) a second time with oil.
Quite possibly utterly OTT, but I can't see the harm other than time and the (small) cost.
I fill mine with Helix Ultra 10/60 which contains detergents so it's cleaned every time I use it, then flushed at around 5,000 miles with another 6 litres of the same. I would never top it up with a splodge of non specific oily stuff with a bit of added household cleaner, so why let it tick over for 15 minutes with a bottle of something that reads the same chucked in? The worst bit is the contamination of the new oil which would also compound the problem after each flush. I love my engine. 
There are plenty of “detergent” oils available they are routinely used for Diesel engines, we are advised NOT to use them in petrol engines because they remove too much of the normal deposits in an engine. 100 yrs ago manufacturers recommended changing engine oil every 1000 miles, using a flushing oil and decoking the engine regularly, engine and oil technology has moved on since then.
When manufacturers decide that flushing oil is needed, use it, otherwise it’s an extra the stealer is charging you for.
When manufacturers decide that flushing oil is needed, use it, otherwise it’s an extra the stealer is charging you for.
deltasierra said:
The flaw in that is it assumes that manufacturers are doing everything they can to extend engine life. Purely hypothetical, but faced with a choice do BMW -
(1) Imply their engines are great and don't need cleaning - tell customers a simple oil change every so often is all they need. Engine last 250k miles.
(2) Tell you to spend more money on servicing, clean the engine, and get 300k out of it, thus meaning every BMW lasts longer and fewer newer BMWs are sold.
As I say, purely hypothetical... just making the point that it is not necessarily in any manufacturers interests to tell their customer based that the car need extra maintenance, nor is it in their interests to ensure the engine lasts as long as possible. It seems more likely that the service intervals / requirements are set at a level which is designed to be relatively simple, not too expensive, and good, and less likely they're set at "money no object, we will tell our customers whatever it takes to get every last mile out of the engine."
Also, of course, many (most?) cars die from some other cause before the engine dies, so getting every last mile is a bit of a pointless target. Cars on average probably get scrapped when the engine's done 60-70% of it's theoretical maximum, and it's probably down to rust, crash damage or simple lack of value vs upcoming repair bill, not down to the engine wearing out.
Of course, it's all down to cost, it’s possible to design an engine to last a million miles but in reality an engine is designed (hopefully) to last the economic life of the car, in most cases this is less than 200k mile, performance and economy is also a factor. Brands vary in their engine reliability, manufacturers do try to extend the engine life by servicing individual components at different milages, some components will need replacing but the core of the engine should last the car lifetime.
If an owner believes flushing extends the engine life that’s fine, he has decided the cost is affordable and worthwhile, it’s not likely to damage the engine, I assume flushing with soya oil is within the BMW warranty conditions.
If an owner believes flushing extends the engine life that’s fine, he has decided the cost is affordable and worthwhile, it’s not likely to damage the engine, I assume flushing with soya oil is within the BMW warranty conditions.
I see.
The reason is that I know the previous owner was a bit slow on the service. She didn't have it long....but probably didn't know much about how critical to Vanos longevity that regular oil replacement actually is, either.
It's the thinned oil that is trying to "lubricate" (it won't do it well) a potentially dirty engine that is messing with my head, I think.
I won't do this after this week's tidy up effort (I'll use slightly short service intervals if I flog it, as sanity would dictate)....it's simply an "owner transition" step.
The reason is that I know the previous owner was a bit slow on the service. She didn't have it long....but probably didn't know much about how critical to Vanos longevity that regular oil replacement actually is, either.
It's the thinned oil that is trying to "lubricate" (it won't do it well) a potentially dirty engine that is messing with my head, I think.
I won't do this after this week's tidy up effort (I'll use slightly short service intervals if I flog it, as sanity would dictate)....it's simply an "owner transition" step.
geoffNZ said:
Close enough that I have done work in Beddington, but really I am the opposite side of Surrey