oem tyres mc

M

mad4slalom

Senior member
everyone seems to slate the contis on the m, why is this , what is so bad about them, is it from hearsay or experience, ? they dont seem bad to me but if i drove an m with something else on would I notice a dramatic difference ? :?
 
You talking about the Conti M3s?

Just because they are an old tyre now, there are better. If your happy stick with them, no point spending £1000 if your happy.
 
I use my OEM wheels only on the track and use CSLs with Vreds on the road.
I found a significant reduction in understeer by changing the fronts to PS2s. I don't mind Contis on the rear too much as having the back end a bit more lively makes for more fun :evil:
 
Really depends on the model of Conti.

SC3s are okay, I replaced mine with Goodyear Eagle AS2s which are an improvement but SC5s are excellent...much better than the AS2s.
 
The original Z4M tires are also the original E46 M3 tires which was introduced in early 2001... No reason to put them back in unless you really REALLY want to keep the car in 100% stock condition. There are better and cheaper tires in the same sizes available.
 
When I bought my Z4MC with OEM wheels/tyres there was 6mm tread on the fronts and the rears were down to the legal limit. On my way home I did some testing round roundabouts to assess the grip of the Conti M3s, and I was quite impressed with them, even with spent rears, despite knowing that they get slated. So I decided to fit new rear Conti M3s in OEM size because I knew I would be changing the suspension (which I have done) and didn't want clearance problems with different size tyres. I've found the Conti M3s to have very good grip on public roads and I do most of my driving on the twisties. My only criticism is that they can be a bit noisy on some surfaces. I'm hoping to take the car to The Ring in the next few months and I'll then be able to form a better opinion of them there. If others claim they're bad as a road tyre, even with hooning, I'd love to see how they drive. :P
 
In the brief period I used them on the road I had no problems with the Contis but they do lack grip under the extreme duress of track driving. As for noise, Vreds on wider CSLs are much noisier than the Contis were.
 
On my Z3MC I've been using Falken 452s and previously 451s, and I find that they're also very good and cheap too. Getting the suspension/geometry set up right is the key to both grip levels and wear rates. If you can keep the contact patch across as much of the width of both tyres as possible, at all times, you will get the best out of the tyres, whatever make.
 
There is a LOT of difference in performance & longevity between the OEM Continental SportContact M3 and some of the newer tyres.

I didn't think they were as bad as everyone was saying until I decided to fit some Michelin Pilot SuperSports.

Wow, what a difference. They're better in all conditions, and they've lasted twice as long as the Conti's. I'm on my 2nd set or rears now, and the first set lasted about 20,000 miles (August 2011 to December 2012) including about 50 'Ring laps.

For the small premium over the OEM Conti's it's a no brainer.
 
I've gone from the conti's to some Michelin sport 2s on the rear (came with the wheels), super sports on the front. They're miles better, there's a lot less under steer and the performance in the wet or cold is very impressive.

I'll definetly be going for more super sports in the future.
 
mmm-five said:
There is a LOT of difference in performance & longevity between the OEM Continental SportContact M3 and some of the newer tyres.

I didn't think they were as bad as everyone was saying until I decided to fit some Michelin Pilot SuperSports.

Wow, what a difference. They're better in all conditions, and they've lasted twice as long as the Conti's. I'm on my 2nd set or rears now, and the first set lasted about 20,000 miles (August 2011 to December 2012) including about 50 'Ring laps.

For the small premium over the OEM Conti's it's a no brainer.
Click to expand...

I don't dispute that there may be better tyres than the OEM Conti M3s, but what we need to see is; the manufacturers publish the specification and performance figures of their tyres, so that we can make an informed decision before we shell out many £000s. I know that you are a strong advocate for the Michelin PSS, but how did you manage to reach the decision to purchase the first set: what facts did you use to support the decision? From my research, the most critical factor is the coefficient of friction, but manufacturers never publish this figure for any surface/conditions. Likewise the wear rate is never published. Have you seen your lap times tumble at The Ring from before/after fitting Michelin PSS? When I next buy new tyres for the Z4MC, on your high recommendation, I will most likely purchase Michelin PSS, but I'd prefer to know the facts that makes them so good (no disrespect intended) :thumbsup:
 
I can tell you, unscientifically, that i had the original Conti M3s on the back, and ContiSport 3s on the front for a few months..... this configuration highlights the difference in the coefficient of friction quite dramatically - and it's a fucking hoot too (if you like oversteer, oversteer and more oversteer!)
 
My decision to swap from M3s to 'something else' was brought on by posts on here, M3cutters, CSL register, etc. after finding it harder & harder to source the SCM3 at a reasonable price.

However, the price & wear rates (almost double) put me off the Cups & Cup+ that I wanted to try, so I thought I'd try the new SportContact 5 reasoning that the newer tyre would be worse than a 10 year old model, and the magazine reviews seemed to agree. The choice came down to PSS, SC5 or F1A-2 - and I think I would have been happy with any of those tyres.

The final decision to go for PSS came down to price & availability.

Can't comment on 'Ring times as I've only recently started timing the odd lap here & there (purely to test out the software/mounts/etc.), but very quickly came to realise the TCS light didn't come on as often, and the back end was not as nervous on fast sweepers (so nervous as some points that I got the rear bushes & springs replaced - which whilst worn, didn't completely solve the 'feeling').

The only comparison I've seen published for wear rates is the UTQG ratings - which is supposed to be a standardised test. The 'traction/friction' rating is a bit useless as it gives the top marks to anything that can produce more than about 1/2 a gee - maybe they need to add another, higher tier :headbang:

In my case I'm guessing that the reduction in spinning of the wheels and sideways action the PSS deliver is partly responsible for the extended mileage I'm getting out of them?

BTW exdos, if you do buy a set based on my recommendation and don't like them, then can I be the first to offer to take them off your hands :P
 
exdos said:
mmm-five said:
There is a LOT of difference in performance & longevity between the OEM Continental SportContact M3 and some of the newer tyres.

I didn't think they were as bad as everyone was saying until I decided to fit some Michelin Pilot SuperSports.

Wow, what a difference. They're better in all conditions, and they've lasted twice as long as the Conti's. I'm on my 2nd set or rears now, and the first set lasted about 20,000 miles (August 2011 to December 2012) including about 50 'Ring laps.

For the small premium over the OEM Conti's it's a no brainer.
Click to expand...

I don't dispute that there may be better tyres than the OEM Conti M3s, but what we need to see is; the manufacturers publish the specification and performance figures of their tyres, so that we can make an informed decision before we shell out many £000s. I know that you are a strong advocate for the Michelin PSS, but how did you manage to reach the decision to purchase the first set: what facts did you use to support the decision? From my research, the most critical factor is the coefficient of friction, but manufacturers never publish this figure for any surface/conditions. Likewise the wear rate is never published. Have you seen your lap times tumble at The Ring from before/after fitting Michelin PSS? When I next buy new tyres for the Z4MC, on your high recommendation, I will most likely purchase Michelin PSS, but I'd prefer to know the facts that makes them so good (no disrespect intended) :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Exdos, as you know I find understeer to be the weak point of the ///MC on the track. I have made several modifications (some at your suggestion) in a stepwise fashion each leading to a small incremental improvement in handling. Changing the Conti M3s on the front to PS2s had an effect at least as great as the sum of the previous modifications.

American tires have to have the wear rate stamped on the sidewall. As a consquence many European tyres have this information, you just need to know where to look :P
They also come stamped with information pertaining to traction and heat dissipation. However, this information alone is not much use. Intuitively, I would expect a soft compound tyre to offer more grip but wear more quickly and vice versa. However, this needn't be the case. Besides, this does not take into account the effect of the tread patterns on wet / dry grip.

Overall, the information on wear rates is a useful comparator for expected longevity and I'd say is of use only in combination with a detailed review of the performance of several similar tyres in wet and dry conditions on a car similar to your own.

This link tells you were to find the tread wear rate: http://www.toyotires.com.au/tyre-care-safety/sidewall-markings.htm

I'll try to find and post the link to a really detailed review I read a while ago that offered as thorough a test of the leading tyre brands as is reasonably possible.

Edit: This is interesting reading albeit comparing tyres current in 2009 with PS2s: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/tire-test-nine-affordable-summer-tires-take-on-the-michelin-ps2-comparison-tests
 
I had no complaints about the OEM Conti's except they only lasted about 12,000 miles...
 
I've run through a set of the Conti M3s, Pilot Super Sports and Dunlop Z1 Star Specs. Each of these tyres are in different performance groups (ultra high performance, max performance and extreme performance, respectively). I'm also just coming to the end of the 2nd set of Pirelli SottoZero winter tyres with 82,000km on the car, so these act as a consistent control in my impression of the summer tyres when it comes to grip at different temperatures.

In terms of rating each tyre on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the best:

Grip at low temperatures (below 0°C):
Conti - 5
PSS - 4
Star Spec - 0 (it is that bad!)
Pirelli - 7

Grip at med temperatures (0-20°C):
Conti - 7
PSS - 7
Star Spec - 6
Pirelli - 6

Grip at higher temperatures (above 20°C):
Conti - 7
PSS - 8
Star Spec - 10
Pirelli - 5

Wet performance:
Conti - 7
PSS - 8
Star Spec - 7
Pirelli - 6

Wear (You can't directly compare UTOQ numbers across manufacturers, only within a manufacturer, as test methods can vary):
Conti - 5 (16,000km to a set)
PSS - 4 (14,000km to a set)
Star Spec - 4 (14,000km to a set)
Pirelli - 6 (20,000km to a set)

Overall in my experience the PSS is the best all-round summer tyre I have used. The Conti is better than other summer tyres when the temperature is low (but at that point winter tyres are better, anyway) and the Star Spec is the best performance tyre, but only when fully warmed up.

For my next set of summer tyres, I'm probably going to go with the new Dunlop Z2 Star Spec, as the PSSs wear a lot quicker when very hot (for example during autocross).
 
exdos, read somewhere what alignment you run, but cant find it now, what do you suggest as a good fast road alignment for zmc on standardtyres and suspension and does it involve pulling pins in top mounts ? would be glad of yr thoughts or suggestions :thumbsup:
 
mad4slalom said:
exdos, read somewhere what alignment you run, but cant find it now, what do you suggest as a good fast road alignment for zmc on standardtyres and suspension and does it involve pulling pins in top mounts ? would be glad of yr thoughts or suggestions :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
I swapped the OEM suspension to AC Schnitzer Racing suspension, fitted a strutbrace, uprated ARBs, 10mm spacers all round and RTAB limiter kit within 3 months of getting the car and only adjusted the geometry with these changes and I've only experience of the OEM suspension with OEM spec geometry.

Having said that, I've recommended to a couple of other forum members the following geometry settings which they both report as an improvement. 1. zero toe all round; 2. pull the pins on the front top mounts and get maximum negative camber (approx -1.6degs). 3. reduce rear camber to about -1 degree. This is the same as the geometry that I run on my Z4MC and similar to my Z3MC and I find that it gives neutral and balanced handling which is predictable and corrects the inbuilt understeer. Adding the 10mm wheel spacers would be a cheap addition which wouldn't require any realignment when you fit them. Hope this helps. :thumbsup:
 
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