Odd roof error warning

[obewan]

Several months ago I got the dreaded bong, red light flash on the 'Roof down' button and a red window symbol on the dash display
It only lasted a few seconds. 1 bong
Interestingly it only occurred on 2 local up hill tight (ish) left-hand bends when taken at normal speed.
(30 & 40 mph zones)
It didn't occur at 'Miss Daisy' levels
This happened whether the boot tray was in the up or down position

Roof operation worked OK
Battery is approx 20 months old

Recently it's happening more (although still ad-hoc) and on shallower bends. It can stay on for 2-4 'bongs' but generally just 1
Roof operation still OK
No codes evident on my reader

I've looked up the fault display in the manual, which states:
1. Roof operation failure - I think not
2. Roof operation malfunction - I think probably not
3. Roof not locked - Hmmm?

I've cycled the roof as suggested many times but it hasn't cleared the issue
Needless to say it only occurs when the roof is up

I've searched on the Forum and can only find one reference to something similar. Here the answer was that a sensor/micro-switch was out of alignment
This seems to fit the bill to me
I would appreciate any opinions on if this is the likely cause and any guidance which one it is likely to be.
My local indie has just re-opened and is inundated with jobs so reluctant to take on a 'find the issue' job at the moment
Thanks in advance

 

[Smartbear]

I believe it’s the springs connected to these microswitches, they stretch over time as they sit under tension.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e89-z4-sdrive30i-roa/repair-manuals/54-slide-tilt-sunroof-soft-top/54-37-folding-roof/1VnY72z6aT
Rob

 

[obewan]

I believe it’s the springs connected to these microswitches, they stretch over time as they sit under tension.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e89-z4-sdrive30i-roa/repair-manuals/54-slide-tilt-sunroof-soft-top/54-37-folding-roof/1VnY72z6aT
Rob

Great, cheers Rob. Doesn't look like a big issue then?

 

[Smartbear]

I believe it’s the springs connected to these microswitches, they stretch over time as they sit under tension.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e89-z4-sdrive30i-roa/repair-manuals/54-slide-tilt-sunroof-soft-top/54-37-folding-roof/1VnY72z6aT
Rob

Great, cheers Rob. Doesn't look like a big issue then?

The micro switches complete with new springs need replacement, it’s a fiddly job evidently (not tried it myself)
You need replacement screws as the originals have locking compound & often need drilling out, try some heat on them to soften the glue first.
The micro switches need their position marked with paint before removal to save aggro later.
If left, the issue becomes worse.
Rob

 

[obewan]

Update
As suggested by Smartbear this rapidly got worse and resulted in the roof getting stuck on opening & closing a couple of times.

A local garage put it on a code reader for me and the list below filled me with dread
• A692 – Microswitch, rear – end module closed, right
• A698 – Rear – end module open during driving
• A696 – Hall sensor, open circuit, closing movement rear – end module
• A6A4 – Hardtop operating unit
• A694 – Microswitch, cowl panel reached
• A68B – Microswitch, roof shell 2 closed left
• A697 – Roof shell 2 open during driving
• A689 – Hall sensor, roof pack erected
• A693 – Microswitch, roof pack stowed

However he reset codes and the roof worked perfectly
I drove around the block. Sure enough 'Bong' and red window on dash displayed.
Checked codes again, this time the only ones showing were
• A68B – Microswitch, roof shell 2 closed left
• A697 – Roof shell 2 open during driving

Am I correct in thinking Shell 2 is the window section?
Sort of makes sense that LH bends triggered it at first
I'm assuming that me manually moving the roof sections when the hydraulics had subsided may have caused the other fault codes?
Or they're a 'knock on' effect?

Also on the Zroadster.com Forum there is a thread about a broken wire in the tight bend around the pivot arm
https://www.zroadster.com/forum/threads/dach-2-stop-closing-throw-fault-code-a68b-my-way-to-upgrade-wiring-harness.133708/

RobbiZ4 has commented on it
Coincidentally a video on YouTube tackles this exact problem

Any more info/advice appreciated

 

[Smartbear]

I’ve seen the video utube “diagnostic Dan” i think? You need to get the voltages checked leaving & returning to the ctm to confirm the fault, you need to remove the pin from the connector on the return leg to get a true reading
Shell 2 is the rear window section. Good luck.
Rob

 

[obewan]

Cheers Rob
Yes that was the video I was referring to.
I've printed off all the info and I'll pop back to the garage in the morning.
I don't fancy touching it TBH, (I'm more mechanical :wink: ) although on the video it looked pretty straight forward
I think the micro-switch is only about £22-25, so hopefully that fixes it

 

[obewan]

Well that didn't work
New roof shell 2 MS fitted this morning and problem still there
A Live track on all the MS positions was correct.

Same codes are back
• A68B – Micro-switch, roof shell 2 closed left
• A697 – Roof shell 2 open during driving
The Garage noted the error only seemed to kick in above 30 mph

I assume there's another sensor somewhere to monitor this, but why would it throw the MS code up?

Unless anyone has any more thoughts I think it may mean a trip to the Stealers

 

[Smartbear]

Well that didn't work
New roof shell 2 MS fitted this morning and problem still there
A Live track on all the MS positions was correct.

Same codes are back
• A68B – Micro-switch, roof shell 2 closed left
• A697 – Roof shell 2 open during driving
The Garage noted the error only seemed to kick in above 30 mph

I assume there's another sensor somewhere to monitor this, but why would it throw the MS code up?

Unless anyone has any more thoughts I think it may mean a trip to the Stealers

That could be broken wires as in diagnostic Dans video maybe :?
Rob

 

[tintoverano]

it may be related to broken wires

you could try using the signal of the working side of roof shell 2 to see what happens



pin #20 and #23 play part here

in your case the right side is closed (X0710, pin #23), but not the left side pin #20 - see what happens, if you switched them or use the signal from pin #23 in pin #20





you'll find these pins in the back of the A96a connector in the CTM

 

[tintoverano]

That could be broken wires as in diagnostic Dans video maybe :?

I'm guessing too

 

[tintoverano]

the link to the CTM wiring diagram

 

[obewan]

Thanks Smart bear/Tintoverano, appreciate your time and effort
Very timely info as I'd just got back to the garage.

Showed it to the owner, however the guy is convinced it's not a broken wire, so I didn't want to push it
He linked the car up again to show me the MS/sensor read outs. Must have been a dozen or more

All the readouts were correct (Open/closed)
He then opened and closed the roof and as I watched the open/closed readouts changed - all as to be expected

Roof had been up and down all morning with no issues

Then he told me he had watched a 'real time trace of the micro-switch on a drive up the road earlier.
Got to over 30 mph and got the dash warning/bong. Immediately the trace was reporting the micro-switch was open, code A68B & A697

He thinks it's a faulty control module somewhere or possibly a software issue
His suggestion is to at least let BMW run their diagnostics over it

Thanks again guys

 

[Deepseaskateboard]

Thanks Smart bear/Tintoverano, appreciate your time and effort
Very timely info as I'd just got back to the garage.

Showed it to the owner, however the guy is convinced it's not a broken wire, so I didn't want to push it
He linked the car up again to show me the MS/sensor read outs. Must have been a dozen or more

All the readouts were correct (Open/closed)
He then opened and closed the roof and as I watched the open/closed readouts changed - all as to be expected

Roof had been up and down all morning with no issues

Then he told me he had watched a 'real time trace of the micro-switch on a drive up the road earlier.
Got to over 30 mph and got the dash warning/bong. Immediately the trace was reporting the micro-switch was open, code A68B & A697

He thinks it's a faulty control module somewhere or possibly a software issue
His suggestion is to at least let BMW run their diagnostics over it

Thanks again guys

My guess would be incorrect resistance reading from that microswitch.

BMW will diagnose and replace.

 

[obewan]

Thanks Smart bear/Tintoverano, appreciate your time and effort
Very timely info as I'd just got back to the garage.

Showed it to the owner, however the guy is convinced it's not a broken wire, so I didn't want to push it
He linked the car up again to show me the MS/sensor read outs. Must have been a dozen or more

All the readouts were correct (Open/closed)
He then opened and closed the roof and as I watched the open/closed readouts changed - all as to be expected

Roof had been up and down all morning with no issues

Then he told me he had watched a 'real time trace of the micro-switch on a drive up the road earlier.
Got to over 30 mph and got the dash warning/bong. Immediately the trace was reporting the micro-switch was open, code A68B & A697

He thinks it's a faulty control module somewhere or possibly a software issue
His suggestion is to at least let BMW run their diagnostics over it

Thanks again guys

My guess would be incorrect resistance reading from that microswitch.

BMW will diagnose and replace.

Thanks Deepseaskateboard, it was a new MS that was fitted, is there something else further down the line? (another part)

 

[Deepseaskateboard]

No, if it’s replaced, that should fix the issue.

They sometimes need to add in extra wiring, to fit the new microswitches.

 

[obewan]

Update
Took the car to local BMW dealers.
Their diagnostic check confirmed all the M/S & senors were working OK.
Despite the local garage clearing the codes they could tell that the 'fault' had been triggered over 250 times.

That seemed a lot to me but I've since noticed that the 'bong' and dash warning only occurs over 25mph.
Under that the red light briefly flashes on the 'down' button.

They are saying there is dodgy connection somewhere in the wiring loom.
It's booked in for early July when they will strip out all the boot trim to find it. Should take about 2 hours

When I originally booked it in, it turned out the service manager lived in the house behind me! :-o
So he's going to take it in and bring it back for me. The dealer is about 20 mile away so will save me having to hang around or go in 2 cars.

 

[Anonymous]

Update
Took the car to local BMW dealers.
Their diagnostic check confirmed all the M/S & senors were working OK.
Despite the local garage clearing the codes they could tell that the 'fault' had been triggered over 250 times.

That seemed a lot to me but I've since noticed that the 'bong' and dash warning only occurs over 25mph.
Under that the red light briefly flashes on the 'down' button.

They are saying there is dodgy connection somewhere in the wiring loom.
It's booked in for early July when they will strip out all the boot trim to find it. Should take about 2 hours

When I originally booked it in, it turned out the service manager lived in the house behind me! :-o
So he's going to take it in and bring it back for me. The dealer is about 20 mile away so will save me having to hang around or go in 2 cars.

Sounds very helpful and potentially relatively cheap...keep us updated pls

 

[kinger]

Symptoms exactly like mine.....bonged on left hand corners at speed and steep up hill sections.
Mine was the left hand microswitch in the boot
Mike

 

[obewan]

Symptoms exactly like mine.....bonged on left hand corners at speed and steep up hill sections.
Mine was the left hand microswitch in the boot
Mike

Cheers Mike
Yeah I read your thread and it was my (and a few other forum members) initial thoughts as well.
Especially when the symptoms were identical - a broken wire seems to lock the boot or at least make the roof operation fail.
But the code was for the rear shell MS, which I've since changed.

Like Pbondar said hopefully a cheap fix
Booked in for 7th July, so I'll update then