Not keen on using my car on the track

[mr wilks]

Three Sisters circuit is in lancs
Anglesey is less than 2hours away and nestled in some of the greatest driving roads in the UK.
Donington is just over 2h away.
Mallory is about 2h away.

My point still stands - all very interesting that you prefer road trips but not relevant to the OPs question regarding whether to buy a cheap track car or take the M on track

Three Sisters circuit is in lancs
Anglesey is less than 2hours away and nestled in some of the greatest driving roads in the UK.
Donington is just over 2h away.
Mallory is about 2h away.

My point still stands - all very interesting that you prefer road trips but not relevant to the OPs question regarding whether to buy a cheap track car or take the M on track

Taking a cheap car on a track will only leave him wondering & comparing , pointless imo unless the trackday scene is something he wants to get into
Now where the f is the three sisters :? never heard of it & Anglesey for me takes me through Snowdonia , a area i love to drive so by then have little desire to then put the car round a circuit chasing other cars , perhaps its a age thing ? 52 i see no allure going out clubbing either

 

[TomK]

would i have enjoyed it more than a trek across the North Yorks moors & a nice hotel in Whitby with Mrs W ? Doubt it

Have you tried?

taking my 997 or a 981 on a trackday to "enjoy what it can do " is just not going to happen

How come?

For the reasons above , if there was a track half hour up the road ive no doubt long ago id have pooled resources with my lad & been there every opportunity ragging around a modified Mk5Gti Golf
Its like the "ring" , so many see it as motoring mecca yet the St Sever forest in Normandy is bigger , nobody there & ive driven it so many times at max that i don't need to see if a track would be faster or slower :? ive already reached the point on so many drives when i get home & the garage door goes down until its next outing i'm 100% satisfied .

Yeah I get your reasons that you don't have a track nearby, as an idea for you perhaps anglesey has some rather lovely hotels nearby that the mrs might like, I can recommend the groes inn as a starter for 10.
I was more confused about why you say you wouldn't want to "enjoy what it can do" phrase with reference to two pork models, I know they should really be used with a baffled sump on track but is that your reason, you're worried they'll go pop? If so I really wouldn't worry, unless you're caning the ass out of them you'd get away without, but they definitely do need mods for proper track work.
If it's a value thing, I'd say my Z4M is one of the cheaper cars on track on the days I go on, considerably so in most cases, castle combe action days are not track days...!

 

[TomK]

perhaps its a age thing ? 52 i see no allure going out clubbing either

I spent a most enjoyable day with a 72 year old in his lovely 991.2 gt3rs at the ring a couple of weeks ago, so I don't think it's an age thing
He did say it's be his last (GT) porsche though!

 

[Ed Doe]

Never too old to party :lol:

 

[Haggisman]

I’ve enjoyed 3 911’s over a 15 year period. Doing several official Porsche driving instruction day’s with Porsche factory driver’s I appreciated the car and brand much more as well as making me a safer, more competent driver / owner. The track is a great place to do that, it’s not all about wringing the car’s neck.
A fine wine tastes better at the right temperature and in a decent glass, however, some people still drink out of plastic glasses.
Go to the track in your Z4M and enjoy, if you get the bug then consider buying something you are prepared to lose and really learn to drive.

 

[Ed Doe]

A fine wine tastes better at the right temperature and in a decent glass, however, some people still drink out of plastic glasses.

:lol: absolutely bang on - the only thing I would still maintain is it is in my view still possible to do say 4 trackdays a year on top of 10k road miles on a single set of tyres and with probably only a couple of additional oil and brake fluid changes, depending on how hard you go on track - a good set of supersports should cope with that, with an eye kept on pressures. To that end, and factoring in a good insurance policy I'd still say life is too short to fanny around with a cheaper track car; get out there and drive the wheels of the M - it won't be long before it becomes difficult to do (financially /environmentally etc etc) and, in my opinion anyway, why the hell should you leave it until its too valuable an asset to use properly?!

 

[TomK]

Never too old to party :lol:

aye!
another 72 year old [youtube]dPQ-N4ZVLdE[/youtube]
it's fun imo that a feeling links such a large age range, it's a fairly unique thing that allows both the very old and very young to express themselves together, but that applies to all kinds of driving I guess. :driving:

 

[Ed Doe]

Never too old to party :lol:

aye!
another 72 year old [youtube]dPQ-N4ZVLdE[/youtube]
it's fun imo that a feeling links such a large age range, it's a fairly unique thing that allows both the very old and very young to express themselves together, but that applies to all kinds of driving I guess. :driving:

Watched that yesterday evening - he's an absolute legend - timing his first flying lap :lol:

You've hit the nail on the head there - I absolutely adore spending the day down at Goodwood during a trackday - even if I'm not on track that day, just chatting bobbins with people of all ages and backgrounds enjoying the same thing! Also, when someone has problems, everyone chops in with tools and diagnostic kit to try and help out - it's great! I helped a lovely older couple with a mini track car last year - they had a misfire so I have them my diagnostic tools to diagnose fault coilpacks and then lent him my tools to fix it. They were there together sharing the car over the day, how cool is that?!

I also met a bloke who must have been in his late 70s who had bought a brand new (at the time) previous gen cayman S, and then bought brand new a 3.8 991 carrera 2s engine from porsche, and transplanted the engine into the new cayman for his track toy. And he was QUICK round a circuit - absolute hero!

 

[Haggisman]

A fine wine tastes better at the right temperature and in a decent glass, however, some people still drink out of plastic glasses.

:lol: absolutely bang on - the only thing I would still maintain is it is in my view still possible to do say 4 trackdays a year on top of 10k road miles on a single set of tyres and with probably only a couple of additional oil and brake fluid changes, depending on how hard you go on track - a good set of supersports should cope with that, with an eye kept on pressures. To that end, and factoring in a good insurance policy I'd still say life is too short to fanny around with a cheaper track car; get out there and drive the wheels of the M - it won't be long before it becomes difficult to do (financially /environmentally etc etc) and, in my opinion anyway, why the hell should you leave it until its too valuable an asset to use properly?!

First year car prep and maintainance on 911 for track and 5,000 kilometres road use.
Initial change of all fluids, high temp brake fluid and harder Pagid pads
6 x 4 lap sprint meetings and 2 normal track days ( 96 x 3.2 kilometre sprint laps and about 48 x 3..2 kilometre track day laps)
1 set of R rated tyres
4 flushes of brake fluid from calipers
1 engine oil and filter change
Nut and bolt checks on components after each track day.
Car was 100%,

 

[Argenta]

Also, there’s nothing wrong pushing things a bit on De Ring.. After all its the greatest racetrack I know. This was with streettires mind (SuperSports)

[youtube]https://youtu.be/_S1kpB4P1sQ[/youtube]

 

[Haggisman]

Never too old to party :lol:

Great car the GT4, have driven at Knockhill in a less modest vehicle, great circuit and quite different to the tracks here in New Zealand. Pretty close to Philip Island in Australia as I believe they both have their origins in Motor Bike racing.
We know Brendon Hartley, soon to be an ex Porsche factory driver and he took my son on an extended drive in a Cayman GT4, Awesome car. We have a local race legend in Ken Smith who is still racing formula 5000 and other stuff at 78.
Go Walter

aye!
another 72 year old [youtube]dPQ-N4ZVLdE[/youtube]
it's fun imo that a feeling links such a large age range, it's a fairly unique thing that allows both the very old and very young to express themselves together, but that applies to all kinds of driving I guess. :driving:

 

[Vanne]

thats said, pretty darn easy car to drive/push one of them them gt3rs/gt4's around the track. HUGE difference trying to do the same with one of our cars. Absolutely HUGE!! i guess that just goes to show what an awesome product they have.

 

[mr wilks]

Have you tried?


How come?

For the reasons above , if there was a track half hour up the road ive no doubt long ago id have pooled resources with my lad & been there every opportunity ragging around a modified Mk5Gti Golf
Its like the "ring" , so many see it as motoring mecca yet the St Sever forest in Normandy is bigger , nobody there & ive driven it so many times at max that i don't need to see if a track would be faster or slower :? ive already reached the point on so many drives when i get home & the garage door goes down until its next outing i'm 100% satisfied .

Yeah I get your reasons that you don't have a track nearby, as an idea for you perhaps anglesey has some rather lovely hotels nearby that the mrs might like, I can recommend the groes inn as a starter for 10.
I was more confused about why you say you wouldn't want to "enjoy what it can do" phrase with reference to two pork models, I know they should really be used with a baffled sump on track but is that your reason, you're worried they'll go pop? If so I really wouldn't worry, unless you're caning the ass out of them you'd get away without, but they definitely do need mods for proper track work.
If it's a value thing, I'd say my Z4M is one of the cheaper cars on track on the days I go on, considerably so in most cases, castle combe action days are not track days...!

No Tom its not a value thing & i'm not worried about the possibility of anything going pop , i'm pretty confident any 997 or 981 would be fine on any average track day just as it left the factory :wink: i'm clearly not getting my point over with this one :| i simply have absolutely no interest whatsoever in any part of the trackday scene & your difficulty understanding why i don't because i like performance cars is a little baffling :? yes i like a certain genre of car but does that mean i should like F1 or any other motor racing ? i haven't watched any since Mansell , id rather walk the terriers over a boggy moor for 2 hrs on a Sunday than watch 15 cars follow each other for 40 laps or whatever they do . I just don't see your assimilation that anyone with a half quick car would want or need to track it to be connected to it ?
On pretty much every weekend all year round i'l be out usually early & be home by 9am
There's a stretch of road in the Dales ( 35mins from me taking the quickest route ) it takes you from Horton Ribblesdale to Ribblehead viaduct , takes around 10mins to drive the stretch but what a 10 mins :driving: perfect undulating tarmac that i know as well as you would your favourite track , its squeezed between Pen y ghent & Ingleborough two of the Yorks 3 peaks , scenery is stunning & every time i drive it is a memory , then at Ribblehead i don't do another lap i could turn right to Hawes for another 20 mins of road heaven but generally i turn left to Ingleton cut up the A59 a few miles before a right turn to Bentham , then back on it :driving: back on the free flowing twisty undulating road for around 15 mins with the Bowland fells in the distance , i turn left in Bentham over those fells , generally not seeing another car for the next 20 mins until Slaidburn , then its country roads home through the Ribble valley by which i'm totally content & happy if the car goes away until its next similar outing .
There are plenty of drives i still want to do , the Black mountains in Wales for one as ive never been , that's on next yrs list along with 4 days roadtrip over xmas with Mrs W (Dales /Yorks moors & Pennines) 5 days in Normandy late January with a chum in his S5 , Snowdonia in April with a few other cars , the west coast of Scotland also beckons so a busy year ahead along with local drives most weekends .
Now trackdays ? Sorry but they hold no allure whatsoever , neither does smoking cigars , visiting the theatre or canoeing which also have no assimilation with driving performance cars :wink:

 

[mr wilks]

Three Sisters circuit is in lancs
Anglesey is less than 2hours away and nestled in some of the greatest driving roads in the UK.
Donington is just over 2h away.
Mallory is about 2h away.

My point still stands - all very interesting that you prefer road trips but not relevant to the OPs question regarding whether to buy a cheap track car or take the M on track

Ed , ive googled the Three Sisters track in Wigan you must have had your tongue rammed well into cheek there mate https://threesisterscircuit.co.uk/cars-bikes/car-track-days
So i drive 45mins , then pay £89 to some pikey to drive around his go-kart track with a load of chavved Civics or should i try the drifting day
Sorry chap but it just aint happening , when i can be off the drive early Sat or Sun morning & 10 mins later howling over Lothersdale moor with the Dales in the distance :driving: back home a hour later before the rest of the house is even up :wink: let me think about that one :roll:
I'm out of this debate now , i'l leave yourself , Tom & the others to tweak their motors & shave a few seconds off their best lap , that ain't for me , i'l crack on enjoying cars my way

 

[DPG]

Looks great Andy, what a pic

 

[BMWZ4MC]

Deriving pleasure from track days or from fast country roads needn’t be mutually exclusive. I love perfecting my technique on a track as much as I do driving quickly over empty country lanes or from road trips.
There’s no doubt that the ///M comes alive in the upper third of the rev range and with all the electronic aids switched off. Opportunities to exploit that are few on the road, especially since the top of second gear exceeds the national speed limit. However, the rewards for heel-and-toeing a perfect down shift whilst braking heavily into a tight bend then letting the back end slide just a little on the way out are still there on the right roads, it’s just the speeds are lower.
I’m lucky enough to enjoy all of the above and certainly wouldn’t exclude any one activity out of preference for another. That said, my RS4 is best suited to country lanes rather than a track and the reverse is true of my Westfield (albeit solely for reasons of self preservation).
In answer to the OP, track day insurance isn’t expensive in the UK and the excess is small, but if you’re nervous all day that you might damage your car mechanically or through a collision, you won’t enjoy yourself as much as you would in something else. A cheap road car isn’t the way forward though, the performance will be frustrating in terms of handling and through rapidly exceeding the endurance of the brakes and tyres. Far better a cheap seven such as a Westfield that will absolutely teach you car control and finesse as well as the benefits of conservation of momentum. Furthermore, the brakes and tyres will last forever, and you’re not risking your pride and joy or daily driver if it all goes wrong!

 

[mmm-five]

I don't get the argument of either side here, as I happily use mine for boring daily driving duties, single-day UK track days, multi-day European trips to the Ring and the regions surrounding it when it's shut, and for weekend hoons.

That's the point of the Z4MC for me, and for the e34 M5 before...it's good at all of these things. Not the best at any one of them though, but then who'd use a Caterham for a 25,000 mile a year commute.

I get a different type of enjoyment out of road driving than I do track driving - but have more 'incidents' on the road than on the track - but then I do more road driving than track driving...and if I'm not in a rush to be somewhere, I'll always take the 'fun' route over the 'fast' route...even if it means I never get above 60mph due to the type of roads.

 

[MrPT]

Great discussion - all points of view valid.

Given the risks of tracking a £20k car instead of a £5k one, I still think I'd rather spend the £5k on tuition and consumables.

 

[Viren]

Driving the car hard on track is actually a lot less dangerous than fast road driving. Also you control the speed so tyre and brake wear is down to you. Could be a safe and fun day out with very little wear on brakes and tyres etc. Take it on a novice half day and I'm sure your mind will change

 

[Haggisman]

Here in NZ the general max speed limit is 62 MPH or 100 Kilometres per hour to be accurate. Couple that with an overall poor standard of driving and fairly vigilant police the track looks pretty attractive to me if you feel the need for speed.
Part of the reason for buying the roadster was the extra dimension it brings to driving on the road, I always feel I’m going faster with the hood down.