Not impressed, build quality....?
- Thread starter chezzy71
- Start date
Yep that's the one!
at the end of the day if you dont like it then dont get one
Mine's a 2003 with 50k on it and looks, feels and drives better than many i looked at that were 2005/6 and only 25-30k miles...you just gotta shop around I guess! Welcome to drop in for a look at mine whenever you like. I'm neat Lincoln BMW (Joes, good parts man) so you're bound to be in the area sometime!
chezzy71 said:
The problem I have with your first post is tone of it from the outset. You are obviously not a petrol head if you even think for second that a moldy hood has anything to do with build quality. It has everything to do with folding the top down while wet for long periods of time. Which equals abuse.
The same with seat bolsters. Every car my wife and I have owned has had bolster issues. It's due to my wife putting the seat so far forward that she has to sit on the bolster and then slides her bum across the leather to get in. After 27 years with her. I still can't get her to move the seat to the rear before getting out. This is not a build issue. It's abuse.
If you look at auto tests of roadsters from pretty much every maker that sells them for under $100,000. The common denominator is cowl shake. If a car maker add enough steel to cure all flex the car would be savaged by the magazines for being to fat. To fix the issue without gaining weight requires very exotic materials. Not so much a build issue as it is a cost benefits one.
The trim could be the one issue you pointed out that may be an issue. But not on mine. But given that the rest of the car was poorly maintained. The trim in that car may have suffered from the same abuse as the rest of the car.
All in all. Not really sure why you would look at a poorly maintained car and equate it's poor condition to build quality.
I suppose that you are really just trying to convince yourself to not buy a Zed. And you shouldn't. You won't be happy unless you are driving a VW. And they are great cars. I just don't drive one for the same reason I switched from a Honda. Great cars. Just a little to boring, no soul, and generic.
hahahah you are obviously not a petrol head,,,, that did make me laugh....
yes your right about one thing, but its not that,, yes the car i looked at wasnt a good example but im still not budging on build quallity,,,,,, and i think your right about me not being happy unless im driving a vw...... going to see some a few more before i make a decision and the ones i look at might make me eat my words...........
yes your right about one thing, but its not that,, yes the car i looked at wasnt a good example but im still not budging on build quallity,,,,,, and i think your right about me not being happy unless im driving a vw...... going to see some a few more before i make a decision and the ones i look at might make me eat my words...........
I have had my 3.00 se for 4 weeks now and - it is a 2005 model in immaculate condition. The only build quality issue that I would be critical of is the door handles that are finished in plastic and on the drivers side the paint has worn off. Our other more practical car is a VW Scirroco 2.00 TFSI - bought new two years ago -great car - but that has been back to the dealers twice for a rattle that appeared in the rear hatch - this is a common problem with this model - an obvious build quality issue.
Keep on looking - we looked at four before we found this one. We looked at one that looked ok in the photos but on closer inspection it was a bit ratty and had not been cherished.
Keep on looking - we looked at four before we found this one. We looked at one that looked ok in the photos but on closer inspection it was a bit ratty and had not been cherished.
If you like the 3 litre straight six, then why not look at the Z4 Coupe as well? This is a much stiffer structure and therefore less likely to suffer from rattles. Or if you fancy a six pot and love VW's, then a Mk4 R32 should hit the spot!
The BMW straight six is a wonderful thing though!
The BMW straight six is a wonderful thing though!
I've owned one VW, from new, a TDi total dependability and rock solid build quality, never once in 7 years and 90k miles did the interior squeak or rattle. I however can’t forgive it dropping a woodruff key on the flywheel and destroying the first engine, just out of warranty with VW shrugging their shoulders. Or the unexplained hydraulic lock causing valves to meet pistons on the VW approved recon motor 3 years later.
The cost of another engine made it uneconomic to repair, but the interior still didn’t squeak on this immaculate example even as it was stuck on a low-loader to be scrapped
.
VW's are nice cars, but ever since their famous squeaky earring advert http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI_rU7_AJnQ VW have very cleverly focussed on using high quailty interior materials and interior build quality to give the impression that they are better than they are. A quick look at Warranty Direct's real world reliability index gives a truer picture, the golf coming in at 81st place, well behind Fiat panda and Citroen C3. Engineering integrity and interior build quality are not the same thing.
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/top-100
The cost of another engine made it uneconomic to repair, but the interior still didn’t squeak on this immaculate example even as it was stuck on a low-loader to be scrapped
.VW's are nice cars, but ever since their famous squeaky earring advert http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI_rU7_AJnQ VW have very cleverly focussed on using high quailty interior materials and interior build quality to give the impression that they are better than they are. A quick look at Warranty Direct's real world reliability index gives a truer picture, the golf coming in at 81st place, well behind Fiat panda and Citroen C3. Engineering integrity and interior build quality are not the same thing.
http://www.reliabilityindex.com/top-100
Ewazix said:
My thoughts exactly. As I watch my neighbours A4 become another in a long line of friends Audi's to be recovered back to the garage I can only conclude Audi employ the same strategy.
There will always be tatty cars around of all makes - how much was this one? If from a dealer they always try it on but as you described it if it wasn't way underpriced they haven't got a snowball's chance in hell of selling it. The principal always applies in that you get what you pay for - there are still a lot of good low mileage zeds around that are reasonably priced as private sales or top money at dealers where you have the added advantage of a warranty etc . What you're not going to do is pick up a really good car for peanuts. It is a prestige car that will command more than your average MX5 , MGF etc.
My own car is a 2003 3.0 and was only the third one I looked at ( the other two were still in very good condition but were the wrong engine ) I paid top money but got a car that looks virtually like new including leather seats that are unmarked.
Don't make a blanket assessment till you looked around a lot more. Good luck in your quest.
My own car is a 2003 3.0 and was only the third one I looked at ( the other two were still in very good condition but were the wrong engine ) I paid top money but got a car that looks virtually like new including leather seats that are unmarked.
Don't make a blanket assessment till you looked around a lot more. Good luck in your quest.
Have to say that if these are cars you are looking at you must be looking at the absolute dregs and cheapest you can find! Plus the people on this forum are on it for a reason because they like the cars and are obsessed and OCD! Because we love to look after and keep the cars looking their best! If your looking at the oldest and cheapest then they are nearly 10 years old. Generally people buy cars because they want something A-B and are not really worried about looking after them. Now these cars were expensive when new, but now they are cheaper than the cheapest new car <7K, people see these as bargains and because of that don't treat them well. When really these cars do need extra attention, the older they get the more they need simple.
As for VW build quality when I was in the market for a new Mini Cooper S I went to look at a brand new gold GTI (like 2 months ago) have to say compared to my old 3 series and my old old Mini Cooper the interior quality was extremely poor. I got into the car to alter the seat position and the handle came off in my hand. End of, got out the car and told the salesman I wasn't interested. No way was I changing brands with a first experience like that.
Although saying that I feel like all brands are cutting corners, My dad had an E46 M3 which felt extremely well built, then he traded it for the E92 M3. Although amazing there was just a feeling that the quality wasn't as good, especially in the head lining with the controls in front of the rear view mirror, when pressed the whole headlining moved.
I have just bought a Z4M (3 weeks ago) it has 47k on it, and although there are some nigly things the car is like new and drives fantastic. You have to find a good one because regardless of the car if it hasn't been treated well then it won't look and feel good and will need some money spent on it to put it right. When I was looking at the Z4M (firstly at the roadster because its cheaper) ring marks in the gearstick, all the dashes scratched, door handles scratched with keys getting in and out, interior trim marked and scratched and bolsters wrecked. Although minor the previous owners were not interested in looking after the cars. I kinda felt like they were driven by women tbh... haha (they are a very womanly car the roadsters) with the type of damage that I don't think men would do. Having shared a car with my mum she inflicted similar damage, especially catching her rings and keys on things! Made my blood boil, when they touch the paint work and you hear the rings cling off the body work! or slamming the door with the ring hand! Pet hate of mine.
As for VW build quality when I was in the market for a new Mini Cooper S I went to look at a brand new gold GTI (like 2 months ago) have to say compared to my old 3 series and my old old Mini Cooper the interior quality was extremely poor. I got into the car to alter the seat position and the handle came off in my hand. End of, got out the car and told the salesman I wasn't interested. No way was I changing brands with a first experience like that.
Although saying that I feel like all brands are cutting corners, My dad had an E46 M3 which felt extremely well built, then he traded it for the E92 M3. Although amazing there was just a feeling that the quality wasn't as good, especially in the head lining with the controls in front of the rear view mirror, when pressed the whole headlining moved.
I have just bought a Z4M (3 weeks ago) it has 47k on it, and although there are some nigly things the car is like new and drives fantastic. You have to find a good one because regardless of the car if it hasn't been treated well then it won't look and feel good and will need some money spent on it to put it right. When I was looking at the Z4M (firstly at the roadster because its cheaper) ring marks in the gearstick, all the dashes scratched, door handles scratched with keys getting in and out, interior trim marked and scratched and bolsters wrecked. Although minor the previous owners were not interested in looking after the cars. I kinda felt like they were driven by women tbh... haha (they are a very womanly car the roadsters) with the type of damage that I don't think men would do. Having shared a car with my mum she inflicted similar damage, especially catching her rings and keys on things! Made my blood boil, when they touch the paint work and you hear the rings cling off the body work! or slamming the door with the ring hand! Pet hate of mine.
I just picked up on 03 Z4 with 53k miles on it and the car is mint. The interior looks brand new and the car is amazing to drive. The dealer I picked it up from only handles imports specializing in Bmws, Mercedes, Porsches, etc. He however told me that he won't carry Audi's and Vws because of the insane amount of money he has to put into these vehicles which on the State side are mainly manufactured in Mexico. My sister is a VW enthusiast and her vehicles are constantly breaking down. The thing that swayed me away from VW's was getting into my friends brand new Jetta a few years ago and hearing the manual transmission literally fall out of the car while backing out of my driveway.
lacroupade
Veteran
German quality my arse.
If you knew anything about the production environment over there - and I'm not just talking cars - you'd have a very different opinion.
I mean Skoda's are built on VW platforms and not in Germany.....and how do the two manufacturers stand up against each other in quality/failure terms?
Biggest problem with german manufacturing is an inherent failure to accept when they've made a mistake and then rectify it properly. I mean look at issues around roof motors and cracking/corroding alloys for starters.....really quick and effective fixes identified and applied, yes? Err no.....
If you knew anything about the production environment over there - and I'm not just talking cars - you'd have a very different opinion.
I mean Skoda's are built on VW platforms and not in Germany.....and how do the two manufacturers stand up against each other in quality/failure terms?
Biggest problem with german manufacturing is an inherent failure to accept when they've made a mistake and then rectify it properly. I mean look at issues around roof motors and cracking/corroding alloys for starters.....really quick and effective fixes identified and applied, yes? Err no.....
lacroupade said:
spot on. I worked for many years for an Anglo/French/Swiss/German engineering outfit, and worked in all of the manufacturing facilities (I was a sort of troubleshooter). They all have design/manufacturing/reliability issues.However, I have to say the German-engineered machinery was far less complex than the French stuff. Relates to the cars, too.