No wonder Putin doesn't fear the West....

[craig3.2]

As per title,is it any surprise that Putin doesn't fear sanctions etc and probably doesn't fear our combined forces.

Just look at some of the numbers ...

Russian Troops are just over 1 million,plus 2'million Reserves
By comparison,USA has 1.3 million troops and around 800,000 Reserve troops.
Add to that The Main EUROPE AND UK forces,with the likes of Germany,UK ,Italy and France having around 130,000 to 185,000 troops each plus Reserves.
So NATOs combined troops are only on a Par with Russia.

Then let's look at Navy forces ...
Russia outnumbers UK by 8 times,and has Twice as many as the USA.

Likewise with Tanks....
13,000 Russian Tanks Vs 6000 USA Tanks and a Feable 227 UK Tanks,240 French Tanks ,200 Italian and around 250 German Tank numbers.
So Total Nato Tanks is around 9000.

Not that it comes down to that alone,as the USA has vast air superiority over Russian air force,and combined NATO air force numbers add to that.

It is worrying though,when German armed forces Generals say they don't have the strength to be an effective force to defend NATOs Eastern front in the Baltics,and NATO only has a few thousand troops there

NATO is too heavily dependent on the USA.
And Biden isn't keen to commit Troops.

Regardless people's own opinions on War,etc or UK and it's Allies committing Troops etc to aid the Ukraine....as we all know that the West being World Police,so to speak,hasn't always had very good outcomes,re Afghanistan and Iraq.

But then,if we do nothing,then Putin won't think twice at continued advances into The Baltics,and try to destroy the Nato countries there.
Then what happens....we continue to not commit forces,and watch Putin steamroll over Europe??


Worrying times ahead for many.

The man's a madman and needs to be stopped.
Sadly,I don't think Sanctions alone will do it ,and NATO Forces will have to step up.

 

[buzyg]

I'm no expert in such things, but I think a part of the plan is to cost the Russian oligarchs around Putface lots of money so they stop supporting him. Alas that will like take longer than it takes to wipe Ukrane of the map and cost us each a chunk in taxes too. But what ever it takes that loon tune has to go. When Hitler set off he had much of Germany supporting his views. I get the impression that is not the case with Putface. Ordinary Russians would be glad to see the back of him. So it's not just about tanks and planes, even from the off.

 

[firebobby]

After Ukraine, what country is next in his sights.

 

[craig3.2]

I'm no expert in such things, but I think a part of the plan is to cost the Russian oligarchs around Putface lots of money so they stop supporting him. Alas that will like take longer than it takes to wipe Ukrane of the map and cost us each a chunk in taxes too. But what ever it takes that loon tune has to go. When Hitler set off he had much of Germany supporting his views. I get the impression that is not the case with Putface. Ordinary Russians would be glad to see the back of him. So it's not just about tanks and planes, even from the off.

Yeah,think that's pretty much the case, but Sanctions won't bother him, clearly.
Also,as you say, by the time we have used Sanctions and then eventually mobilise NATO forces, Ukraine could he all but wiped out.

 

[craig3.2]

After Ukraine, what country is next in his sights.

The Baltic States,which many countries in that area, are NATO members. So we will need to support them with Military backing.
The problem is,NATO countries have all made too many cut backs in recent decades,and it's showing now.(in their Military).

They will need to ramp up Military spend,in UK and Europe.
Very reminiscent of Hitler attacking Poland.
He didn't stop there,and neither will Putin stop at the Ukraine.

 

[Z4paul]

Way too many crazy men in positions of power, interesting read about how he seems to have changed over last year or two - covid crazy ?? Thank god trump didn't win in states, he thinks the man is a genius!!
The former US president said that the Russian president had made a “smart move” by sending “the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen” to the area.

Both completely bonkers imho

 

[Ole gits rule]

I think he has always believed that Russia should have its sphere of influence back, he is an old school Russian who hates the west - its only now that Biden is in power he feels he can do this as he does not have the stomach to stop him.

Its army may be big but not certain the weaponry is that modern compared to NATO countries, yes he can beat smaller nations like Ukraine but NATO in full maybe a touch to far for him

My feeling is that normal Russians want him gone but how will they ever achieve that with rigged elections - the only way he goes is via a military coup and I am not certain we would end up with anyone better.

 

[mmm-five]

Putin has already proved that he's willing to kill civilians in his peacekeeping invasion activities, whereas the West/NATO are not...so how do you effectively target Putin and his cronies without putting thousands/millions of civilians at risk?

You can't simply bomb the f**k out of Moscow and St Petersburg or Minsk.

I don't think his soldiers are that happy with attacking Ukraine either, and I look forward to many of them seeking asylum in a NATO country to escape threats...to them and their families.

My biggest concern is that I don't think Putin is sensible enough to NOT push his big red button if it goes tits up?

 

[Vornwend]

I think sanctions will work eventually but we are talking years not months. In addition if the west can wean itself off Russian oil and gas there will be a permananent dimunition of Russia's ability to conntinue funding all this. Waging war consumes vast sums of money and whilst Putin may have built up a significant war chest keeping it topped up is more difficult. Russia may have large armed forces but its GDP is smaller than Italys and about half of the UKs and less than 10% of the USA so it cannot possibly win a prolonged war with the west. If it tries it will impoverish itself for decades to come - sort of what happended in the 80's and that eventually led to the break up of the USSR. I also doubt if the population, subjugated as it might currently be, will put up with the hardships that a large scale conflict would impose upon it. Amazing that so many Russians were protesting last night - what courage.

I remain very concerned about the nuclear button - these dreadful weapons only work as a deterrent if both sideas have rational actors - anybody think Putin is rational?

 

[clarker63]

anybody think Putin is rational?

Lets hope he is rational enough not to invade a NATO country. You'd hope he can see he can't possibly win, but who knows really.

I just hope the Ukrainians lay down their arms and reserve the fight for another day. Russia is likely to crush them and we are unable to directly intervene.

The more worrying thing would be China invading Taiwan believing that the US might not retaliate. I think its just a matter of time before they start doing similar things there.

 

[Nanu]

One thing must be said in favour of Trump. Because everyone thought he was a madman, dictators like Putin would think twice about taking him on. He was as unpredictable as they were and they knew it. Even North Korea backed off and they don't come much loony than him.

Honest question, Does anyone think Putin would have invaded if Trump was still President?

 

[Ole gits rule]

One thing must be said in favour of Trump. Because everyone thought he was a madman, dictators like Putin would think twice about taking him on. He was as unpredictable as they were and they knew it. Even North Korea backed off and they don't come much loony than him.

Honest question, Does anyone think Putin would have invaded if Trump was still President?

Said exactly the same in B21 Odessa thread yesterday and no way would he have invaded if Trump was there as he was so unpredictable, this is because he senses Biden is weak.

 

[Pondrew]

I think he has always believed that Russia should have its sphere of influence back, he is an old school Russian who hates the west - its only now that Biden is in power he feels he can do this as he does not have the stomach to stop him.

This 100%. Biden's weakness is why he's doing it now.

I watch an hour of UK news (BBC) then an hour of RT news, just to see the difference in perspective and come down somewhere in the middle.

 

[Ole gits rule]

I think he has always believed that Russia should have its sphere of influence back, he is an old school Russian who hates the west - its only now that Biden is in power he feels he can do this as he does not have the stomach to stop him.

This 100%. Biden's weakness is why he's doing it now.

I watch an hour of UK news (BBC) then an hour of RT news, just to see the difference in perspective and come down somewhere in the middle.

Biden is weak and Putin knows it even though he is living in the past, wanting the old USSR back.

 

[sars]

While sanctions on the oil rich oligarchs might be a long term solution, in general I have no faith that they will work at all, I mean just look at North Korea. The other thing China will buy all the oil that Russia can produce and sell them all the technology and equipment Russia needs :headbang:

I wish that Ukraine had had the ability, once they new that their borders had been crossed by the Russian military, to have launched an attack on all the Russian refineries and power stations, that’s the only way you can hurt them.

 

[ronk]

Putin has his finger near the big red button - if he starts to get a bloody nose then what's next?
If we had applied meaningful sanctions the the Crimea was invaded then i suspect we might not be in the current predicament.

 

[Pondrew]

I wish that Ukraine had had the ability, once they new that their borders had been crossed by the Russian military, to have launched an attack on all the Russian refineries and power stations, that’s the only way you can hurt them.

By the time the EU leaders have organised meetings about meetings to discuss what they will do for that meeting and decided who is going to do the catering, Putin will be done and back to stroking his persian cat and calling everybody Mr Bond.

If I were Russia, I would turn the gas tap off too.

Not heard any condemnation from China. If they are in cahoots with Russia, that is not worth thinking about.

 

[BeeEmm]

Even North Korea backed off and they don't come much loony than him.

What do you mean, backed off? When Trump was 'threatening' North Korea they 'tested' a few missiles to let the USA know that they were not a push over like Iraq, then Trump backed off. We British see things differently because we are still an aggressive nation. Have you really forgotten that we, along with our USA allies bombed Baghdad killing thousands of innocent men, women and children without good reason. :headbang:

 

[rdgreen]

By the time the EU leaders have organised meetings about meetings to discuss what they will do for that meeting and decided who is going to do the catering, Putin will be done and back to stroking his persian cat and calling everybody Mr Bond.

Why did this spring to mind? Sadly it appears only to be true to life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YawagQ6lLrA

 

[TitanTim]

The hope is with the increasing sanctions and the Ukranians not being such a pushover and a war being drawn out Putin's government will turn on him but it is frightening how they all seem to be going along with the madness, creating excuses and playing the denazification, genocide card. I really hope China don't come to Russia's rescue once the sanctions start biting.

His staff do seem scared of him,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-u8EoWcI

Tim.