Newbie with roof problems

D

DP561

Member
 Germany
Hi All,

I'm sort of new to the site, I joined a while back but haven't posted anything until now.
My wife has a L/H/D 2005 2.3 coupe which she bought in Germany (she German and very proud of her car). We've have been back in the UK for 3 years now and haven't really had any big problems ...until now.
My wife jumped in the car on the weekend and noticed that the red light beside the roof controls was flashing. She tried to open the roof but nothing worked; she kept trying and eventually it opened and then she closed it again. However, when she tried again nothing worked and nothing has worked since.
I made sure the red lever was in the correct position which it was, the boot shelf was down and the switch on the back wall was engaged but still nothing and the red light is still flashing. When I press the button nothing works, the windows don't drop, the roof doesn't disengage and non of the motors are making any operating noises.

Any help and guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Dave.
 
I think there is a wire in the roof that that can break which operates the latch motor or the roof ecu has also been known to fail (something like carly would diagnose).

If you have pulled the red emergency release handle, its common for the release plunger on the pump to stick due to corrosion of dissimilar materials.

If you have a read through this thread you should get some good pointers... https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=103178&hilit=Roof+wire
 
The OP says the windows don't even drop, which is a stage before any of the roof motors engage, so my guess is that the issue is with the ECU, located behind the small grill, behind the passenger seat (on a RHD car).

The first thing would be to check that the ECu has not become unpluged. Its a small grey box about 100cm x 100cm
 
Number5 said:
The OP says the windows don't even drop, which is a stage before any of the roof motors engage, so my guess is that the issue is with the ECU, located behind the small grill, behind the passenger seat (on a RHD car).

The first thing would be to check that the ECu has not become unpluged. Its a small grey box about 100cm x 100cm
Click to expand...
Or about 100mm x 100mm :thumbsup:
 
If the red light continually flashes and windows don’t drop when you press the down button I’m 100% sure you have a break in a wire in the loom in the front of the roof where it goes down the passenger side, it seems to be a common fault with the loom bending over time as the roof goes up and down. Mine was the same, I tried everything till someone on here told me what it was and it was one broken wire and a kink in another. The wires are so thin, just like telephone wire.
 
It may not be the roof module. When the roof has been raised/lowered manually, the system loses it's "sync" between the latching motor and the rest of the system. It then goes into lockout as a safety measure.

If you remove the plastic cover in the centre of the header rail, and using a 4mm hex socket, wind the latching motors from one end to the other, this can sometimes reset it.

Mike
 
Hi All,
Thanks very much for all your advice, it looks like I've got some things to check this weekend. I will post again to let you all know if I have any luck.
:D
Dave
 
Hi All,
I'm up s**t creek without a paddle at the moment.....
Checked the cables to the ECU and they seemed ok. I couldn't check the wiring running down the side of the roof with the roof up so I manually lowered it. Couldn't really see anything (in other words, I didn't really know what I was looking for!!) Closed the roof, wound the levers down and the car won't start now. All the lights on the dash come on and is sound like relays/switches are clicking but the car wont start.

Help... :(
 
Put a piece of wood on the starter and tap it with a hammer - if it then starts, you have the typical starter motor issue (do a search). If not, then likely to be ignition switch.
 
DP561 said:
Hi All,
I'm up s**t creek without a paddle at the moment.....
Checked the cables to the ECU and they seemed ok. I couldn't check the wiring running down the side of the roof with the roof up so I manually lowered it. Couldn't really see anything (in other words, I didn't really know what I was looking for!!) Closed the roof, wound the levers down and the car won't start now. All the lights on the dash come on and is sound like relays/switches are clicking but the car wont start.

Help... :(
Click to expand...

You need to wind the roof back approx 1/3rd, then there are approx 4 screws across the front and 1 either side (which are difficult to see) this then drops down and you can access the wiring, it’s obvious which loom it is and the prob will be on the passenger side as it curves.
 
ph001 said:
Put a piece of wood on the starter and tap it with a hammer - if it then starts, you have the typical starter motor issue (do a search). If not, then likely to be ignition switch.

Hi ph001, I don't think its the starter motor, I've had that before and did exactly what you said (tapped it with a hammer) and I've had the motor changed within the last 2 years.
The car wont start since I put the roof down manually. After I checked the ECU cables were secure the car still started ok so I dont think I accidentally disturbed one of the cables, but I cant be 100% sure. All the electrics come on, the windows will drop electrically etc but it wont turn over.
Click to expand...
 
Is there anyone out there who lives within driving distance of Bingley and would be prepared to come out and have a look for me. I'm obviously happy to pay.
Its my wifes car (she calls it Max) and she is falling into a state of depression, it was bad enough the roof not working but since I had to tell her I'd made it worse and now it wont start, things have gone downhill rapidly. Its her pride and joy, shes had it from new (2005) and uses it every day (at least she did before I got my hands on it).
Fingers crossed,
Dave.
 
Hmmm.. it's a strange coincidence but I just can't think how any kind of roof issue would be related to the car not starting. When you say you checked the ECU, I assume you mean the roof one, not the main engine ECU?

Really, there are not many common reasons for a Zed not turning over that aren't to do with starter solenoid, ignition switch or EWS module. Have you tried the other key (assuming you have 2)?
 
DP561 said:
Hi Russ 59,
Thanks for the tip, once I get the car started I'll have another look at the roof.
Click to expand...

The guy who fixed my roof is still on here, his forum name is domsz4
Drop him a PM.

I should have took pics 🤬
 
I checked the ECU behind the seat, so yes the roof one.
I've been assuming the problem was initiated by something I did, but, strange things happen sometimes.
What is the EWS module and where is it? When I was getting the allen key from the boot there was a black box beside the battery and I automatically checked the cables were all secure even though I didn't know what it was!!!
The key I used is the same one I used when I first got in the car and it started ok with that key. BUT, I haven't tried the other key since it all went T**ts up so its something I will try.
Being a mechanical engineer (not automotive though) I'm trying to think logically and assuming (not always advisable) that something I've done has caused this. But as you know, it could be also a massive coincidence ...
When I turn the key, there are some strange clunking noises coming from behind the dash/inside the engine compartment.
 
The EWS module is what controls starting and security. It sends a signal to the transponder in the key when the key is inserted into the ignition - hence why trying a second key can eliminate things from the equation.

However, you perhaps gave me a clue when you mentioned this 'black box' beside the battery. Do you mean the module which sits on the positive battery cable? It's called the BST (battery safety terminal). It's function is to disconnect the big current wire from the car systems in the event of a crash. If this has tripped you can get 12V on some systems through the smaller cables but often can't start the car. I wonder if this could be something to do with your problem, maybe you pulled on the wire and tripped it?. It can be bypassed temporarily.

Have a look at this Youtube link. Search bypassing BST on Google. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c26Jq1O1m0M
 
Tried the second key, no luck.
The box I meant wasn't the one right beside the battery, it is under the boot floor cover in the same area as the battery but its not connected to the battery, about 20cm x 20cm and has one cable going into it. Checked the cable, seem to be secure.
:( :( :(
 
I think you are probably going to need to connect some diagnostics to check for codes. Carly is easiest to use but not the cheapest - otherwise a cable from Bcables and their INPA install package.
 
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