New insurance law

L

lacroupade

Veteran
Yet another reason not to do what I did and leave your car off road without telling Big Brother....WTF is this country coming to.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Motorinsurance/DG_186696
 
What is the drawback?

If your car is SORN-ed, there is no issue.
 
I agree with this policy. Some cities are piled high with untaxed, uninsured cars parked/dumped in residential streets. driven and used until found and crushed.

I keep a couple of Jeeps uninsured SORN'd off street - no problem
 
Can a car be sorned, and still insured , more thinking the cars holed up for the winter and say, the garage roof caves in .
 
That is up to you.

A non SORN-ed car can not be uninsured, with a SORN-ed car you have the choice to insure it or not.

Not sure why the UK runs so many years behind the rest of Europe with regards to cars. The principle that you could drive untaxed cars does not exist in other countries as the owner would always be known. In the UK you could always say you sold the car, or just bought it from a pikey in a pub and no V5 document was not a problem until recently.

The insurance part - just do as EUrope and insure the CAR, and not the person. Much simpler.
 
Gerry said:
Can a car be sorned, and still insured , more thinking the cars holed up for the winter and say, the garage roof caves in .
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Yes, of course. There are even special types of insurance which is for cars that are being garaged for a period of time.
 
Gerry said:
Can a car be sorned, and still insured , more thinking the cars holed up for the winter and say, the garage roof caves in .
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I'm not sure your house insurance would cover this, I had a ridge tile come off my roof years ago and land on the bonnet of my then E46, my home insurer wanted nothing to do with it, I was left with the choice of paying for it to be repaired or claiming on my car insurance.
 
I agree that something needs to be done about uninsured drivers but I doubt that insurance costs will come down even if they got them all off the road, sure they'd come up with a new excuse to put prices up.

I don't understand why we don't charge vehicle duty for cars entering the UK as well as checking insurance details at the same time got to be a win for the TAX man.
 
pvr said:
What is the drawback?

If your car is SORN-ed, there is no issue.
Click to expand...

Well firstly, if you let your insurance lapse because you leave the car off the road, you are now required to surrender the tax disc........previously this wasn't a requirement and you wouldn't need to SORN until the tax expired. There are plenty of people on here (like me) who work or travel abroad, sometimes for extended periods....thats how I got caught out last year.

The second point is the increasing amount of responsibility on the individual to evidence that they aren't breaking any laws. So what if there are drivers on the road running without tax or insurance? Thats what the MI and DVLA VED databases and ANPR are for....this scheme isn't going to improve detection rates, it simply puts more onus on the individual to prove their 'innocence' if they park their vehicle up off-road, as well as yet another financial sting (by way of a nice juicy fine) for those who forget or are unable to comply.....its Big Brother in action.

I'm also not sure that moving to the EU system would fix anything? As I understand it, that simply involves a degree of risk management by the car owner, as different drivers carry different excesses (I'm assuming the owner insures the car then anyone can drive with permission?)...but that doesn't help when all you want to do is quietly park your car offroad for a few months without the Forces of Darkness descending on you!!! :)
 
I can't see the issue either unless you are not going to keep your Z4 insured.

My car has been in the garage since the end of October SORN'd but insured for obvious reasons.
 
srhutch said:
I can't see the issue either unless you are not going to keep your Z4 insured.

My car has been in the garage since the end of October SORN'd but insured for obvious reasons.
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Well like I said above, it was certainly an issue for me after an extended overseas trip (which the DVLA refused to accept as an excuse BTW): Well firstly, if you let your insurance lapse because you leave the car off the road, you are now required to surrender the tax disc........previously this wasn't a requirement and you wouldn't need to SORN until the tax expired. There are plenty of people on here (like me) who work or travel abroad, sometimes for extended periods....thats how I got caught out last year.

But its an interesting point; normally if your tax or MoT are not in order then the insurance company has a getout of jail card......has anyone checked with their insurer that a vehicle is actually covered in such circumstances? :|
 
we should abolish car tax, add it to fuel, those who drive more pay more, i drive more so i think i should pay more than some one who does not

having said that, petrol is already tax'd enough
 
lacroupade said:
pvr said:
What is the drawback?

If your car is SORN-ed, there is no issue.
Click to expand...

Well firstly, if you let your insurance lapse because you leave the car off the road, you are now required to surrender the tax disc........previously this wasn't a requirement and you wouldn't need to SORN until the tax expired. There are plenty of people on here (like me) who work or travel abroad, sometimes for extended periods....thats how I got caught out last year.

The second point is the increasing amount of responsibility on the individual to evidence that they aren't breaking any laws. So what if there are drivers on the road running without tax or insurance? Thats what the MI and DVLA VED databases and ANPR are for....this scheme isn't going to improve detection rates, it simply puts more onus on the individual to prove their 'innocence' if they park their vehicle up off-road, as well as yet another financial sting (by way of a nice juicy fine) for those who forget or are unable to comply.....its Big Brother in action.

I'm also not sure that moving to the EU system would fix anything? As I understand it, that simply involves a degree of risk management by the car owner, as different drivers carry different excesses (I'm assuming the owner insures the car then anyone can drive with permission?)...but that doesn't help when all you want to do is quietly park your car offroad for a few months without the Forces of Darkness descending on you!!! :)
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So a minor inconvenience to you but a massive knock to those driving around without insurance. I think the word "surrender" is purposely inflammatory, in reality your are just ending the tax on the car and getting some cash back for it...

If the next guy that slams into the back of you is uninsured I think you might understand.
 
For 12 years I was on the road but I never forgot to insure my car, nor would I want to. You can phone from abroad, you can use the internet to do it, plenty of ways to do.

The same applies to paying tax on 31st of Jan and July, VAT on 2 companies every 3 months, corporation tax, PAYE it is just in my diary and it happens then but perhaps I am (to) organised in these matters.

I have 5 cars, and in my outlook it is noted when the tax expires, when the insurance expires, when the servicing is due etc etc. Compare to the red tape I have to comply to for my businesses, it is such a trivial thing.

The reverse method of working that you only insure when you want to does not work, as the majority of people would "forget" and drive without and see how long they get away with it. In this sort of society, you have to legislate for the majority which might slightly inconvenience an individual, but in this case I don't even see how it inconveniences anybody as a car "should" be insured as damage to it would otherwise not even be covered (storm damage to garage or any other incident).

The more cars are insured, the lower the premium will be for all of us so I think compulsory insurance is a step in the right direction.
 
I appreciate what you are saying guys, but my point is there is no value-add here that improves the detection rate of uninsured drivers. Ergo I an only assume its another stealth tax for those of us who don't have MS Outlook :poke:

I mean analyse; Mr Herbert with his Saxo lets his insurance lapse and goes out for a drive. Pretty soon, because he's immediately fallen off the NID, he's been detected by one of 000s of ANPR gantries or a police car thus equipped. Result = nicked. Same scenario if he's let his tax run out...nicked. And since the police also have access to the MoT database, theres a third method if thats expired.

But lets say Mr Herbert had a conscience and SORNs his car, sending the tax disk back for a rebate.

A week later he takes the car for a drive - is there a DVLA man waiting outside his gate? No. Does his lack of insurance and tax show up on ANPR? Yes. So will he get nicked? yes.

Of course in answer to the question "will he show up on a fourth database as having declared same?" Well yes....but how many bloody databases do you need?

And is Mr Herbert likely to SORN anyway? Highly unlikely I'd say....he's probably driving with an expired tax disk as well (which in any event gets him picked up by ANPR or a bobby on the beat via a PNC check), or soon will be when it runs out, but of course the NID and VED databases are showing him as not covered.

So IMHO it adds no value to the crucial issue of preventing/detecting uninsured driving and I file it in the same pigeonhole as the recent change that makes you 'prima facie' responsible for a vehicle you've sold, right up to the point you receive a letter from DVLA saying they've registered the change of ownership...no letter = it remains your responsibility.

Call me a pedantic moron if you like, but its the thin end of the wedge IMHO. Wait til they inject your chip in a few years time.... :evil:
 
One point which would be useful, would be a reminder of MOT and Insurance. We get the Tax reminder, but why not a reminder when the rest is expiring as well since they are all on the databases ...
 
pvr said:
One point which would be useful, would be a reminder of MOT and Insurance. We get the Tax reminder, but why not a reminder when the rest is expiring as well since they are all on the databases ...
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Why do you need that? You've got a humungous database with all your reminders on already :poke:

Maybe you can run the official 'Z4-Forum Reminder Service' for the rest of us :P

BTW, my MOT centre sends a postcard out every year, although mine's easy to remember as the tax, insurance & warranty are all up at the same time :thumbsdown:
 
I was not talking about my super organised self, more like the mortals under us :P
 
I park my cars in the garage for 5 months every winter, with only the insurance required to safeguard the asset in case of fire, theft or vandalism. All the "driving" insurance is removed and the licensing bureau couldn't care less about it. The plates cost $70 a year and there is no road tax. It takes a five minute phone call to put the car back on the road.

The big problem with this system is that although I need proof of insurance to get my plates every year there's nothing in place to stop me canceling my insurance and continuing to drive the vehicle as an "Uninsured motorist". Getting in an accident caused by an Uninsured motorist is more headaches than you ever want to endure and usually is very costly. Your system sounds like a pain in the ass but it would seem preferable to our system, "Nothing".
 
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