New Gas Boiler

T

TitanTim

Elite
Hi all

My trusty Glowworm heat only boiler of 21 years is slowly dying a death and deciding when it wants to fire up instead of being told too :) It seems to be going into ignition lock out but will fire up when reset but a little random when it does it i.e. it will run on and off all night no issues but will play up in the evening. Its been a great boiler with just needing a fan in the 20 years and that's been it.

Heating chappie came round last night and had a poke and reckons it's the PCB board on its way out. A replacement will be 300 quid with labour but no guarantee it do the job so it's really not worth fixing.

As a non expert on a good replacement, any idea which would be better between a Worcester Bosch or a vaillant? I'm reading on Vaillants being better to work on and a little more reliable but there's probably not much in it.

I've got a local installer coming to give a quote in the next few days but would be good to have an idea on a decent make.

Unsure if they are really all the same these days on quality and reliability.

Thanks,

Tim.
 
Tim, there’s not much in a boiler. Things do go wrong, but in my experience it is the parts that are expensive and not a great deal of labour to fit. I was advised to get a Vaillant about 10 years ago and went for the next capacity up from what I needed in case I needed to extend the central heating again. It’s been very good at heating the house but has gone wrong a couple of times in 10 years at c.£300 a pop. Parts availability seems to be good as I’ve never had to wait. Worth mentioning that, unlike my cars, I never get it serviced so in that respect it’s been pretty reliable.
 
Zedebee said:
Tim, there’s not much in a boiler. Things do go wrong, but in my experience it is the parts that are expensive and not a great deal of labour to fit. I was advised to get a Vaillant about 10 years ago and went for the next capacity up from what I needed in case I needed to extend the central heating again. It’s been very good at heating the house but has gone wrong a couple of times in 10 years at c.£300 a pop. Parts availability seems to be good as I’ve never had to wait. Worth mentioning that, unlike my cars, I never get it serviced so in that respect it’s been pretty reliable.
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Thanks for the reply :thumbsup:

Interesting to know on cost of parts. I had boiler insurance including servicing for years but it starting to get ridiculous on the monthlies as the boiler aged so stopped it 2 years ago. I was thinking of just going for another Glowworm with mine being pretty reliable but then I've always been told modern boilers aren't made as good these days and to stick with what I had as not much to go wrong.....until now :cry:

Tim.
 
Here are a few details from the last few we have had fitted.

Price will largely depend on the size of your boiler.

Paid £2160.00 in 2017 for Worcester Bosch 24 , 10 Year Guarantee

Paid £2640 in May 2020 for Ideal Logic 35 , 7 year Guarantee, Replaced our original ground standing Worcester. That was 29 years old. We couldn't get parts for it any more :( (Alas they don't seem to make em like that now)

Paid £2040 in Oct 2021 for Ideal 24 , 7 year Guarantee

Costs are all in inc VAT, labour, fittings, draining and flushing, metal filters etc.

We get all out boilers serviced annually. Including the one at home.

Hope that is of some use. Just finishing my tax return, so had the figures to hand. :)

So to some up if you can get the parts. Probably worth fixing.
 
Hi Tim,

I had a Bosch boiler - it was in the house when I moved in, it started to cause issues last year, spent £80 to get it fixed and then £100 for service, two weeks later the heat exchanger went - cost was £400, however, it is the only part covered for ten years by Bosch (I was n 9 years and 9 months) so had that free but £120 to fit.

The boiler then went again so having spent the best part of £300 quid, I was pretty fed up so bought a new one from a local installer - went Viessmann and have had zero issues so far but its only 12 months old, cost was £2300 and came with a 10 year warranty.

My view is once they start playing up, its time to get shot, you could spend 50% of a new boiler and still not cure the bloody thing
 
funny you mention glowworms and pcbs... our glowworm stopped working a couple of years ago, £300 for a new pcb fixed it right up.

personally, given the cost of replacement is at least £2000, i'd try a £300 fix first. it might solve the problem, and it might keep working for another 10 years.

we've got a 25 year old potterton boiler in a rental we own, every year the lettings agent tells us we should consider replacing it, and every year a simple repressurisation gets it working again.

used to have boiler cover too, but after having adopted the 'only insure what you can't afford to replace' motto, we've ditched that and just have a slush fund for when (if?) a boiler ever does break and cannot be repaired.
 
Most manufacturers give very long guarantee/warranties these days including all parts and labour as long as you have them serviced annually.

I fit a lot of Worcester and Baxi boilers, don't have many issues with either. I don't particularly like vaillant and they do seem to suffer with a few common issues, diverter cartridge/PCB

You could try the £300 fix but on a 20 year old boiler the efficiency will be really low. You will immediately notice the difference with a new boiler as the radiators will be so much more effective. Whichever you choose make sure they fit a magnetic filter to prolong the life of the new one.

Jay
 
Thanks again :thumbsup:

I hadn't thought of Veissman so will have a look at their boilers this evening and thanks for the various all in costs gives me an idea.

I've heard PCB boards on Glowworms have been a weakness in the past although mines been ok. Think the quote on a replacement put me off as they added fitting a replacement is no guarantee it will fix the problem so could be a waste of money but it could fix it. I'm just thinking 300 quid is a third of a new boiler in affect, bar labour and saundries.

A little annoying as I think it would be better if the had boiler had failed altogether however its been fine upto now today yet yesterday it took 3 attempts to get it running yesterday afternoon and again late last night but the ran OK overnight so it's an intermittent problem.

I don't know if a PCB board can partially fail or they just fail altogether :|

Tim.
 
jamesditchy said:
Most manufacturers give very long guarantee/warranties these days including all parts and labour as long as you have them serviced annually.

I fit a lot of Worcester and Baxi boilers, don't have many issues with either. I don't particularly like vaillant and they do seem to suffer with a few common issues, diverter cartridge/PCB

You could try the £300 fix but on a 20 year old boiler the efficiency will be really low. You will immediately notice the difference with a new boiler as the radiators will be so much more effective. Whichever you choose make sure they fit a magnetic filter to prolong the life of the new one.

Jay
Click to expand...

Thanks Jay.

One of the things I've been thinking about is efficiency especially as my gas costs have doubled in the past month since renewing my tariff :cry:

End of the day 20 years isn't so bad. Boiler was fitted on 9/11 day.

Tim.
 
PCB fail on cracked joins so depending on humidity, temperature (especially now when colder) they play up.

On a failing board used a heat gun to attempt to prolong it, which it did but failed in the end anyway
 
pvr said:
PCB fail on cracked joins so depending on humidity, temperature (especially now when colder) they play up.

On a failing board used a heat gun to attempt to prolong it, which it did but failed in the end anyway
Click to expand...

That would make sense as to why it seems to run overnight on a schedule as the boiler isn't really cooling down. During the day I tend to boost it which allows it to cool down in between times and that's when it won't fire up at first go. Just turned it on 5 minutes ago and no go but once reset its now running.

Tim.
 
My Worcester Bosch died prematurely after 9 years ( heat exchanger) It had already needed some work previously and the engineer told me it had been badly fitted and wasn't going to be cost effective to repair. After trying to revert to the guys who fitted it - who it turned out hadn't even done the Corgi registration properly.....but had since gone out of business, I concluded that getting a reliable local engineer who can fit, service & repair is perhaps more important than the brand of the boiler itself. The engineers I chose are well regarded & favoured Glowworm based on ease of access, servicing, parts availability etc so that's what we have and we keep it serviced annually to maintain the lengthy warranty. It's the local heating engineer who I'm putting my trust in though.
So far, so good...
 
TitanTim said:
pvr said:
PCB fail on cracked joins so depending on humidity, temperature (especially now when colder) they play up.

On a failing board used a heat gun to attempt to prolong it, which it did but failed in the end anyway
Click to expand...

That would make sense as to why it seems to run overnight on a schedule as the boiler isn't really cooling down. During the day I tend to boost it which allows it to cool down in between times and that's when it won't fire up at first go. Just turned it on 5 minutes ago and no go but once reset its now running.

Tim.
Click to expand...


I was having similar problems some years ago & found a company in London (Wembley i think) who offered exchange circuit boards for around £30.
Fitted it myself & it solved the issue :thumbsup:
Edit, here’s a couple i just found https://www.boilerpcb.com/contact-us-2-w.asp

https://www.cetltd.com/search.asp?srch=Glowworm

Rob
 
To be honest Tim I wouldn't get too hung up on what it is doing; it's 20 years old so it has more than done it's job.
Sounds like a piezo/ gas valve issue of some sort to me

As someone said above, a gas boiler is a gas boiler, Vaillant are supposed to be quality but I had constant issues with one a few years ago. Worcester are OK and are so common that every plumber knows them and how they work. Look for the cheapest equivalent to your Glowworm with the best warranty.
If you have a pressurised system with internal circulating pump just make sure your new boiler has at least the same capacity pump (new pumps are all variable speed for energy rating requirements) or you could get issues.
If you have a gravity fed system with external pump and tanks in the loft, it is worth considering changing to a pressurised system albeit more initial outlay as you will need a new HW storage cylinder along with other bits.
And do not let anyone talk you into getting a combination boiler. :thumbsup:
 
Colin_E said:
My Worcester Bosch died prematurely after 9 years ( heat exchanger) It had already needed some work previously and the engineer told me it had been badly fitted and wasn't going to be cost effective to repair. After trying to revert to the guys who fitted it - who it turned out hadn't even done the Corgi registration properly.....but had since gone out of business, I concluded that getting a reliable local engineer who can fit, service & repair is perhaps more important than the brand of the boiler itself. The engineers I chose are well regarded & favoured Glowworm based on ease of access, servicing, parts availability etc so that's what we have and we keep it serviced annually to maintain the lengthy warranty. It's the local heating engineer who I'm putting my trust in though.
So far, so good...
Click to expand...

Worcester Bosch guarantee heat exchangers for 10 years, even though the boiler is 7 years - they sent me a new one and had a local engineer fit it
 
Thanks everyone, appreciate the replies and advice.

The system is gravity fed, seperate hot water tank, pump etc but these are only 2 years old so a little reluctant to be changing these so soon.

I seem to be erring towards the Worcester Greenstar 4000 which looks to get decent reviews so I'll ask the estimator about these when he turns up.

Thanks for links on the PCBs Rob :thumbsup: Had a look and a refurbished one for mine is 70 quid, new one is £170, local plumbing company would be charging 140 quid to fit but they are really good as used them for numerous jobs and they know what they're doing but advised it might not fix the issue.

I did get a quote off British Gas about 3 years ago for a straight swap boiler which came in at a bargain £4500 that was with a 500 quid discount :o

Tim.
 
I changed mine to a Worcester Bosch about a year ago when the monthly cost of the warranty with British Gas was more than the interest free monthly costs of buying a new one. The Indy who fitted and services mine said they are all much of a muchness when it comes to efficiency and servicing costs these days. It just depends on which make has the best deals at the time of fitting.

One easy choice though is not British Gas
 
One thing that may be useful is to make sure whatever new boiler you decide on can run on the proposed gas/ hydrogen blend without any expensive mods. Worcester claim all theirs can :D
 
I'm sitting here looking at my original Potterton Profile boiler that is over 30 years old and has only been serviced once in the 10 years I've been here but works just fine. :D

Probably because it's so simple there is naff all in it to go wrong! Personally I'd give a £300 repair a try before I shelled out over £2K on a replacement that is going to be over-complicated - but then I do move house quite often!
 
Nanu said:
I changed mine to a Worcester Bosch about a year ago when the monthly cost of the warranty with British Gas was more than the interest free monthly costs of buying a new one. The Indy who fitted and services mine said they are all much of a muchness when it comes to efficiency and servicing costs these days. It just depends on which make has the best deals at the time of fitting.

One easy choice though is not British Gas
Click to expand...

Unfortunately British Gas have been going down the pan for years and have been relying on their past customer expectations. My present boiler was fitted by them but 20 years ago, a respected company back then. If you ever read comments on their Facebook adverts they just get completely slated by customers.

Tim.
 
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