N20 vs N52 vs N54 Engine

[Anonymous]

I tinkered with several calculators..as can be seen from the previous published data the 30i stands out as for it quoted BHP its actually slower than all the other E89s in terms of the power to acceleration ratio, for whatever reason..

However picking a calculator that ignores that issue and mirrors the actual 30i well but in that sense underplays the the 20i and 28i shows

30i manual 5.6 sec 14.35 sec 95 mph
30i auto 6 sec 14.52 sec 94 mph
28i manual 6.1 sec 14.63 sec 93 mph
28i auto 6 sec 14.58 93.5 mph

280 manual 5.5 sec 14 sec 97.35 mph
280 auto 5.4 sec 13.94 97.7 mph

So at the worst the remapped N20 in auto would be 0.7 sec faster to 60, 0.4 sec faster to the 1/4 mile and 2.7mph faster through the trap

BMW's figures suggest that 28i auto is already 0.3 sec faster than 30i manual before a re-map for whatever reasons..

Hardly big numbers and unless you had the Stig and a set of timing lights we'll never know..

 

[Anonymous]

Just out of interest what sort of real world fuel consumption do you get from your 20i?

It depends entirely on the journey and wether I’ve got my other half in the car or not I’ve had up to 50mpg and as low as mid twenties, I've almost reached 500miles from a full tank driving carefully. I’ve had a couple of n52 zeds and the best i got was from my 3.0si e85 with 420miles.
My 30i e89 only lasted a month before it expired so never got to know it as well as the si I had previously, official figures were around the same from memory, it had a handful of bhp less than my e85 but i didn’t really notice it. I liked them both.
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Rob

That is interesting, I ask because many of these new downsized turbos cars do not achieve anywhere near their published MPG figures, my 2016 F20 118d never got anywhere near the claimed MPG yet all my older NA BMWs have always achieved near enough the official numbers. My current 30i gets around 44 MPG on long run and in around town around 22 to 24 MPG. So it isn't that far off from what the N20 will do.

How would an aftermarket exhaust setup sound with the N20? If it's good, one less reason to 'diss' the 4 pot

A turbocharged 4 pot will never sound as good as a naturally aspirated 6 pot. No matter what exhaust system is used.

Absolutely correct a 4 pot just isn't going to sound as good as a 6 no matter what you do to it. Put a nice aftermarket exhaust on a 6 pot and there is simply no comparison compared to the 4 pot.

I've never found the N20 on runs with NA E85s mostly to less economical than the 3.0 E85s.. not my much but say on a full day run in about 30-40 litre top up I seem to be about 1-2 litres worse fuel burn than them..maybe its just them slip streaming me..?

 

[R.E92]

It's hard to make a case for the N53 on paper but the smoother running and better engine/exhaust sound are something that someone with an appreciation for engineering would value over a slight performance bump.

 

[abar121]

There are diesels that are quicker than both, who cares.

When you still have an NA six engine available, you might as well go for it. Cheaper downsized motors are everywhere now.

 

[Silverstar]

It's hard to make a case for the N53 on paper but the smoother running and better engine/exhaust sound are something that someone with an appreciation for engineering would value over a slight performance bump.

It's hard to make a case for the N53 on paper but the smoother running and better engine/exhaust sound are something that someone with an appreciation for engineering would value over a slight performance bump.

In case of the Z4 I guess you mean the N52? the N53 never made it in this car but yes I agree with what you say.

There are diesels that are quicker than both, who cares.

When you still have an NA six engine available, you might as well go for it. Cheaper downsized motors are everywhere now.

Exactly the reason why I chose the N52 over the N20.

 

[enzed4]

I think the n20 is a good compromise, faster than the 30i yet better on fuel and cheaper to tax, the noise isn’t as good but a turbocharged 4 sounds good in its own right
Rob

How would an aftermarket exhaust setup sound with the N20? If it's good, one less reason to 'diss' the 4 pot

A turbocharged 4 pot will never sound as good as a naturally aspirated 6 pot. No matter what exhaust system is used.

Absolutely correct a 4 pot just isn't going to sound as good as a 6 no matter what you do to it. Put a nice aftermarket exhaust on a 6 pot and there is simply no comparison compared to the 4 pot.

One exception I can think of would be a quality aftermarket exhaust on a flat 4 boxer (WRX or Porsche) - fantastic

 

[Anonymous]

I don’t get this holy grail of the straight six exhaust note and /or linear response of the NA engine....

I’ve never tinkered with any of the 30+ cars I’ve had exhaust systems so not speaking from any experience there..but I did tinker with around 20 different exhaust systems on singles/twins/triples/fours...motorbikes

I have driven several cars with flat fours, in line fours, straight six, V6, V8 with both OE and modded exhausts

I can’t say that with the exception of V8s that any standout particularly. They are all different with different sonic attributes..

I’ve removed the artificial noise generator in the N20 car..I much prefer a quieter overall note..no golf T for me either.

Similarly a linear power delivery is very nice but not very exciting..I had an Audi V6 Quattro and that was smooth and very linear, more like an electric motor..

The lower power N20 variants feels bit flat then a bit of a push when pressed ..however the transformation in feel when re-mapped is very addictive with almost a (small) rocket like push as the boost comes on..

Anyway that’s my view...

 

[Silverstar]

How would an aftermarket exhaust setup sound with the N20? If it's good, one less reason to 'diss' the 4 pot

A turbocharged 4 pot will never sound as good as a naturally aspirated 6 pot. No matter what exhaust system is used.

Absolutely correct a 4 pot just isn't going to sound as good as a 6 no matter what you do to it. Put a nice aftermarket exhaust on a 6 pot and there is simply no comparison compared to the 4 pot.

One exception I can think of would be a quality aftermarket exhaust on a flat 4 boxer (WRX or Porsche) - fantastic

There are always exceptions to the rule, I used to have a couple of Impreza WRXs and those boxer 4 cylinder engines were great.

 

[Silverstar]

I don’t get this holy grail of the straight six exhaust note and /or linear response of the NA engine....

I’ve never tinkered with any of the 30+ cars I’ve had exhaust systems so not speaking from any experience there..but I did tinker with around 20 different exhaust systems on singles/twins/triples/fours...motorbikes

I have driven several cars with flat fours, in line fours, straight six, V6, V8 with both OE and modded exhausts

I can’t say that with the exception of V8s that any standout particularly. They are all different with different sonic attributes..

I’ve removed the artificial noise generator in the N20 car..I much prefer a quieter overall note..no golf T for me either.

Similarly a linear power delivery is very nice but not very exciting..I had an Audi V6 Quattro and that was smooth and very linear, more like an electric motor..

The lower power N20 variants feels bit flat then a bit of a push when pressed ..however the transformation in feel when re-mapped is very addictive with almost a (small) rocket like push as the boost comes on..

Anyway that’s my view...

BMW are known for their super smooth great sounding inline 6. I have driven the 18i and 28i and although they sound ok for a 4 pot they do not sound anywhere near as good as the 6 pot and importantly nor do they feel as refined. The 28i I drove which I assume was standard and not tuned in anyway didn't particularly feel any faster than my 30i.

It should also be noted that with BMW usually the larger capacity 6 pots sound the best the smaller capacity 6 pots although smooth and sound good and are not the same sound wise as the larger capacity 6s. The other thing I have noticed is not all manufacturers get their engines sounding great, e.g. my Supras were turbo 6 pot but they never sounded particularly great and sound wise I would rate the WRX I had which had the boxer 4 over the Supra. As Enzed says there are exceptions to the rule.

 

[Big Bad Boris]

Would anyone take a 23i over a 28i due to the 2 extra cylinders and associated exhaust soundtrack, despite the 28i’s superior performance and lower running costs?

 

[Silverstar]

Would anyone take a 23i over a 28i due to the 2 extra cylinders and associated exhaust soundtrack, despite the 28i’s superior performance and lower running costs?

Not sure why one would look at the 23i over the 30i since all running costs are exactly the same yet you get a lot more power and torque and an even better exhaust note. I guess the only reason would be that there are plenty more 23i around so more likely to get something within your choice of colour and spec and it would probably cost a lot less than the 30i too. Although for me the answer would be simple....... just get a 30i. But then I would say that now wouldn't I.

 

[Big Bad Boris]

I agree with your sentiment, the arguments for and against the 30i and 28i are long running here. I think generally most favour the 30i for well discussed reasons, should make myself scarce now before the 28I brigade arrive :exitright: That wasn’t really the question I asked, I was wondering how much the smaller I6 is valued vs the higher powered 4 in the 28i?

Also we have a handle on sales figures for the 6 pots from 2009-11? I believe at the outset the base 23i was around £4K cheaper than the 30i. Did it massively outsell the 30i due to that baseline price difference? On Auto Trader using my search criteria (up to £13k and 80k Miles) there are just 11 30is vs 79 23is a ratio of 7 to 1. Either there are a lot more 23s out there, or they are not selling while the 30s are?

 

[Silverstar]

Also we have a handle on sales figures for the 6 pots from 2009-11? I believe at the outset the base 23i was around £4K cheaper than the 30i. Did it massively outsell the 30i due to that baseline price difference? On Auto Trader using my search criteria (up to £13k and 80k Miles) there are just 11 30is vs 79 23is a ratio of 7 to 1. Either there are a lot more 23s out there, or they are not selling while the 30s are?

There is your answer they sold a shed loads more of the 23i than the 30i. When the car was new the answer is two folds, lower purchase price and secondly many buyers mistakenly think that the smaller engine will be more economical. For the second part I used to see this all the time back in the day when I was trading used cars, people would automatically buy the smaller engine thinking it would save them loads of cash when in reality there isn't a huge difference, especially if you do low miles. This is also true between the 30i and 28i, people say the 28i has lower running costs which is true but if you are not going to do a large number of miles per year how much exactly are you going to save?

 

[Tinker15]

Would anyone take a 23i over a 28i due to the 2 extra cylinders and associated exhaust soundtrack, despite the 28i’s superior performance and lower running costs?

It appears to me you are tying yourself in knots! Just buy a 30i you know it makes sense.

 

[Big Bad Boris]

Absolutely, you are correct - I just wish there were a few more 30i’s on the market at present. As mentioned there are only 11 on AT right now matching my criteria, none of them are floating my boat. Yes patience is a virtue and the right one will come along etc etc but you all know what’s it’s like once you make your mind up, you want it now, especially with the summer upon us and all those trips to the shops to buy necessities on the horizon.

 

[Tinker15]

Absolutely, you are correct - I just wish there were a few more 30i’s on the market at present. As mentioned there are only 11 on AT right now matching my criteria, none of them are floating my boat. Yes patience is a virtue and the right one will come along etc etc but you all know what’s it’s like once you make your mind up, you want it now, especially with the summer upon us and all those trips to the shops to buy necessities on the horizon.

Keep looking one will turn up. I was in France when I spotted mine for sale in a garage in Christchurch and flew over to look at it and bought it there and then. 35,000 on the clock and the specification I wanted. Keep the faith!

 

[Smartbear]

Also we have a handle on sales figures for the 6 pots from 2009-11? I believe at the outset the base 23i was around £4K cheaper than the 30i. Did it massively outsell the 30i due to that baseline price difference? On Auto Trader using my search criteria (up to £13k and 80k Miles) there are just 11 30is vs 79 23is a ratio of 7 to 1. Either there are a lot more 23s out there, or they are not selling while the 30s are?

There is your answer they sold a shed loads more of the 23i than the 30i. When the car was new the answer is two folds, lower purchase price and secondly many buyers mistakenly think that the smaller engine will be more economical. For the second part I used to see this all the time back in the day when I was trading used cars, people would automatically buy the smaller engine thinking it would save them loads of cash when in reality there isn't a huge difference, especially if you do low miles. This is also true between the 30i and 28i, people say the 28i has lower running costs which is true but if you are not going to do a large number of miles per year how much exactly are you going to save?

It’s not just the mpg which is better on the 2.0 range (Compared to the six pot) which obviously saves you more money the more miles you drive, but the tax is also cheaper which saves money regardless of usage and also the servicing costs are less as well
Rob

 

[Silverstar]

There aren't many on Autotrader right now usually there are more maybe something to do with the current situation, not many people putting cars up for sale? Either way the low numbers of 30i to me is a good thing, in time these are going to be rare beasts which can only mean better residuals for this particular engine.

 

[Tinker15]

It’s not just the mpg which is better on the 2.0 range (Compared to the six pot) which obviously saves you more money the more miles you drive, but the tax is also cheaper which saves money regardless of usage and also the servicing costs are less as well

But how many people buy a Z4 to save money? To some they are a second or third car and running costs are low on the list of priorities when choosing which model to buy.

 

[Smartbear]

It’s not just the mpg which is better on the 2.0 range (Compared to the six pot) which obviously saves you more money the more miles you drive, but the tax is also cheaper which saves money regardless of usage and also the servicing costs are less as well

But how many people buy a Z4 to save money? To some they are a second or third car and running costs are low on the list of priorities when choosing which model to buy.

All the people that chose the 23i instead of the 30i for a start
Rob