Isn't that incredible a few psi making such a difference. I checked mine before I dropped it off for its alignment check (to save any embarrassment if one was flat) and the were 2.1 bar front 2.3 rear. Do you think that's a bit high?ranski said:
My handling really sucks!!
- Thread starter thorpyuk
- Start date
Of course, moving pressures away from specification can have a direct impact on wear, either in the center (over spec) or on the edges (under spec). Something to also keep in mind when moving away from the recommendations.
arizona coyote
Member
thorpyuk said:
I have been having these problems since I removed the standard 17" wheels fitted with Bridgestone RFLT tyres! The original set weher 225x45x17 all round. I didnt have any tramlining, just a hard ride.
So I sold the standard wheels and upgraded to non OEM 18" Alloys on a staggard fit 225 front and 255 rears. This made the car worse, serious tramlining! I have Michelins on the front and Continental on the rear.
The car feels awful to drive, it wanders all over the place.
So I decided to have the alignment done and it made no difference
I then went to another reputable tyre place to get the alignment done. I told them I already had it done before, and to be fair they advised me not to waste any more money, be it with them or anybody else! The reason the car handles the way it does is because it has staggered fit wheels. They explained that unless I fit one-size all round for instance 225 a round this will get rid of any tramlining! its the price you pay to have a big ass tyre on the back.
I recently went to see my friend in Lincoln, and the motorway and A roads down the car felt almost normal to drive. The roads on the way down there are smooth with hardly any ruts or grooves. I find that around Sussex; if I drive on a perfectly flat road it feels normal, as soon I hit any lorry-track or damged road it wanders all over the place. This (to me) confirms the issue. The wider rear tyres pick up any ingradient and decides to steer from the rear.
Try it for yourself, find a smooth road if it drives in a straight line, no messing...you know its the staggared fit Tyres!
I even bought a chepa set of E46 16" Alloys just to compare, and to my amazement the car drove perfect, it was a real joy, but didnt feel safe in corners etc...because of the skinny tyres lol.
I am seriously thinking of going back to either 17" Alloys with 225 all round, or 18".
So I sold the standard wheels and upgraded to non OEM 18" Alloys on a staggard fit 225 front and 255 rears. This made the car worse, serious tramlining! I have Michelins on the front and Continental on the rear.
The car feels awful to drive, it wanders all over the place.
So I decided to have the alignment done and it made no difference
I then went to another reputable tyre place to get the alignment done. I told them I already had it done before, and to be fair they advised me not to waste any more money, be it with them or anybody else! The reason the car handles the way it does is because it has staggered fit wheels. They explained that unless I fit one-size all round for instance 225 a round this will get rid of any tramlining! its the price you pay to have a big ass tyre on the back.
I recently went to see my friend in Lincoln, and the motorway and A roads down the car felt almost normal to drive. The roads on the way down there are smooth with hardly any ruts or grooves. I find that around Sussex; if I drive on a perfectly flat road it feels normal, as soon I hit any lorry-track or damged road it wanders all over the place. This (to me) confirms the issue. The wider rear tyres pick up any ingradient and decides to steer from the rear.
Try it for yourself, find a smooth road if it drives in a straight line, no messing...you know its the staggared fit Tyres!
I even bought a chepa set of E46 16" Alloys just to compare, and to my amazement the car drove perfect, it was a real joy, but didnt feel safe in corners etc...because of the skinny tyres lol.
I am seriously thinking of going back to either 17" Alloys with 225 all round, or 18".
Sorry but whoever advised you is wrong. Wider tyres on the rear do not themselves cause tram-lining.
Your issues arose because you moved to wider tyres all around, lower profile and RFT's, The 3 combine to give you more susceptible set up to tram-lining, due to less flexibility of the sidewall and a wider tread on the front to seek out surfaces faults (ruts, etc.) to follow.
You won't get tram lining on smooth roads as there is little for the tyres to deviate from straight and follow and for you to try to correct.
As an aside and since not mentioned in this thread the Z needs a proper alignment not standard front wheel tracking. The passenger seat and boot need loading and a near full fuel tank to do it. Without it just further messes things up.
Your issues arose because you moved to wider tyres all around, lower profile and RFT's, The 3 combine to give you more susceptible set up to tram-lining, due to less flexibility of the sidewall and a wider tread on the front to seek out surfaces faults (ruts, etc.) to follow.
You won't get tram lining on smooth roads as there is little for the tyres to deviate from straight and follow and for you to try to correct.
As an aside and since not mentioned in this thread the Z needs a proper alignment not standard front wheel tracking. The passenger seat and boot need loading and a near full fuel tank to do it. Without it just further messes things up.
This is like deJa vue!
I owned an 2004 E85 for 8 years and this topic has never gone away. I also remember when one of the first owners of an E85 decided to change out his RF tyres for standard sports tyres and reading his reviews on what the changes were like.
We all suffered the wayward handling on the motorway and down country roads where the edge of the road was all wavy and undulating. I certainly thought that driving my Z4 down country lanes was like having a huge wayward dog on a lead and not knowing what direction it was going to pull you in. normally it was towards the ditch! (a Z4 owning friend calls the RFT "ditch finder" which is quite apt).
It took me until 11,000 miles (one set of rears lasted 7,000 miles) to decide to bite the bullet and ditch all of the tyres irrespective of the amount of tread left and move over to a premium tyre (pirelli P6000), I couldn't get my head around the cost of the Michelin PS2 at that time incase the experiment didn't work.
The day i had the tyres changed out at home, I drove it up the road and even at low speed it was noticeable that something had changed.
I then proceeded to take the Z4 down a few of my favourite "test roads" and the difference was startling! if had a compliant ride and the handling even though the tyres still had remnants of the mould release oil on them was transformed!!!!!!
I have to admit, that the only negative change i encountered was that initial turn in was not good! after a short while i put a set of H&R antiroll bars on the car and that sorted out that little problem.
The major problem i suffered with the Pirelli tyre was the outside edge of the tread was not holding up to the track abuse that they were subjected to. Eventually i transferred to Michelin PS2 which i believe were the best tyre choice for the Z4. great grip in the dry, excellent in the wet and a good tread shoulder which handled the understeer abuse somewhat better.
I really have not heard of one Z4 owner that has made the change to NORMAL tyres and regretted it. Sure the flat tyre issue is a problem, but its one encountered by a great deal of performance car and more increasingly every day car drivers with manufacturers striving to reduce weight and make cars more compact.
If you have a doubt, find a local mate with a Z4 who has made the change and borrow his/her wheels. you will be convinced in 10 miles.
BTW
I also had a 335d E92 shod with the Potenza RFT and that too was a wayward dog on the motorway. changed to Michelin PS2 RFT and the car was also transformed (it was a company car so had to keep with an RFT).
If the geometry is set correctly, then its the RFT............... FULL STOP.
PS the e89 is not affected in the same way as the E85 and is a much better beast on the motorway and B roads.
Dario
I owned an 2004 E85 for 8 years and this topic has never gone away. I also remember when one of the first owners of an E85 decided to change out his RF tyres for standard sports tyres and reading his reviews on what the changes were like.
We all suffered the wayward handling on the motorway and down country roads where the edge of the road was all wavy and undulating. I certainly thought that driving my Z4 down country lanes was like having a huge wayward dog on a lead and not knowing what direction it was going to pull you in. normally it was towards the ditch! (a Z4 owning friend calls the RFT "ditch finder" which is quite apt).
It took me until 11,000 miles (one set of rears lasted 7,000 miles) to decide to bite the bullet and ditch all of the tyres irrespective of the amount of tread left and move over to a premium tyre (pirelli P6000), I couldn't get my head around the cost of the Michelin PS2 at that time incase the experiment didn't work.
The day i had the tyres changed out at home, I drove it up the road and even at low speed it was noticeable that something had changed.
I then proceeded to take the Z4 down a few of my favourite "test roads" and the difference was startling! if had a compliant ride and the handling even though the tyres still had remnants of the mould release oil on them was transformed!!!!!!
I have to admit, that the only negative change i encountered was that initial turn in was not good! after a short while i put a set of H&R antiroll bars on the car and that sorted out that little problem.
The major problem i suffered with the Pirelli tyre was the outside edge of the tread was not holding up to the track abuse that they were subjected to. Eventually i transferred to Michelin PS2 which i believe were the best tyre choice for the Z4. great grip in the dry, excellent in the wet and a good tread shoulder which handled the understeer abuse somewhat better.
I really have not heard of one Z4 owner that has made the change to NORMAL tyres and regretted it. Sure the flat tyre issue is a problem, but its one encountered by a great deal of performance car and more increasingly every day car drivers with manufacturers striving to reduce weight and make cars more compact.
If you have a doubt, find a local mate with a Z4 who has made the change and borrow his/her wheels. you will be convinced in 10 miles.
BTW
I also had a 335d E92 shod with the Potenza RFT and that too was a wayward dog on the motorway. changed to Michelin PS2 RFT and the car was also transformed (it was a company car so had to keep with an RFT).
If the geometry is set correctly, then its the RFT............... FULL STOP.
PS the e89 is not affected in the same way as the E85 and is a much better beast on the motorway and B roads.
Dario
I recently had my front wishbone bushes replaced,amazed by the difference,even the Mrs has noticed.It now runs rock solid as opposed to a bit twitchy as it was before. Get them done, it's not expensive.I paid under £60 for the bushes (eurocarparts) and an hour's labour for fitting.
Above - My 18" are fitted with Michelin PS2 and Continental Sport Contact 3 on the rear. Good tyres but still tramlining? I have had proper alignments done, changed n/s wishbone as balljoint was worn.
Do you think because I have two different make/style tyres fitted, could it lead to tramlining? Or perhaps o/s wishbone should also be replaced? Is it best practice to change my fron tyres to Continetal too?
(bigshurv) sorry dont mean to hijack your thread, but all replies are good information for both of us
Do you think because I have two different make/style tyres fitted, could it lead to tramlining? Or perhaps o/s wishbone should also be replaced? Is it best practice to change my fron tyres to Continetal too?
(bigshurv) sorry dont mean to hijack your thread, but all replies are good information for both of us
Can I suggest that you change the tyres from side to side. Ie. swap left for right.
The PS2 are directional but I don't know about the conties.
This way you should be able to counteract the directionality of the tyres. His was once suggested to me by a vehicle geometry center, specifically to determine if pulling to the left/ right was the issue.
The PS2 are directional but I don't know about the conties.
This way you should be able to counteract the directionality of the tyres. His was once suggested to me by a vehicle geometry center, specifically to determine if pulling to the left/ right was the issue.
Thanks for your replies all - seems quite a lot of debate on this.
MrPT - i've now had chance to check & although the pressures weren't bang on, they werent widely out either. ANyway, i've changed the pressures to 30/33, and although it's maybe made a tiny difference, the main problems still exist.
Dario - it's funny, but i'd probably describe the handling problems exactly the same as you did! A wayward dog, and on country lanes nothing short of scary. It's quite embarassing because i had a ford focus estate behind me the other day & i couldn't get rid of him on the twisty roads In fact, my rear end even stepped out a little at low speeds going round a tight corner with mud on the road..
The car just doesn't inspire any confidence that it will hold the road. It would seem switching the RFT's out for 'normal' tyres might be the way to go...
MrPT - i've now had chance to check & although the pressures weren't bang on, they werent widely out either. ANyway, i've changed the pressures to 30/33, and although it's maybe made a tiny difference, the main problems still exist.
Dario - it's funny, but i'd probably describe the handling problems exactly the same as you did! A wayward dog, and on country lanes nothing short of scary. It's quite embarassing because i had a ford focus estate behind me the other day & i couldn't get rid of him on the twisty roads
In fact, my rear end even stepped out a little at low speeds going round a tight corner with mud on the road..The car just doesn't inspire any confidence that it will hold the road. It would seem switching the RFT's out for 'normal' tyres might be the way to go...
Bugger. I wish I'd read this before creating my own post. Seems this is a common thing. I'm finding it quite alarming to be honest. I have 135s 18" i think.
Ok. Sound advice. What would you replace with?