More incidents in London...
- Thread starter Ducklakeview
- Start date
Wow, quite a can of worms I've opened!!
To echo the above, imo we need HARD and definite action NOW. We cannot, as a nation sit back and allow this to continue.
Personally, as I've said - IF someone is on a watch list, they surely have to be considered a threat to the nation, so by all accounts removing those people will make the nation a safer place..
(Ducklakeview now ducking for cover...)
Mike
To echo the above, imo we need HARD and definite action NOW. We cannot, as a nation sit back and allow this to continue.
Personally, as I've said - IF someone is on a watch list, they surely have to be considered a threat to the nation, so by all accounts removing those people will make the nation a safer place..
(Ducklakeview now ducking for cover...)
Mike
z4pilot said:
It's all about the pounds, shilling and pence. There will never be peace on earth. Still starving people, water shortages and disease. If we all clubbed together there would be no famine etc...
Presidents and Prime Ministers don't run countries.....banks, corporations and powerful families do.
Im pretty sure there were reports on the day of 9/11 that there were employees at a well known South Gloucestershire based aircraft engineering firm who witnessed a large number of apprentice students of middle eastern and Arabic persuasion in the workshops celebrating the terrorist attack ...
Seems its okay for people, the politicians and the media to state 'enough is enough' but then everyone puts their head in the sand, crosses their fingers and waits for the issue to pass them by in the hope any future UK terrorist atrocity wont ever impact personally on them or their family.
Why is it no one really has the balls to stand up and take a pragmatic approach: if you are known to the UK security services for anti Western extremist views and refuse to take an oath of allegiance to the UK (nor prepared to recant your belief in ISIS/Taliban/Al-Qaeda etc), then you automatically secure a one way cruise ticket on an oil tanker bound westward towards the setting sun and can be dropped off anywhere over the Mid Atlantic Ridge when the tanks require washing out. Job done.
Seems its okay for people, the politicians and the media to state 'enough is enough' but then everyone puts their head in the sand, crosses their fingers and waits for the issue to pass them by in the hope any future UK terrorist atrocity wont ever impact personally on them or their family.
Why is it no one really has the balls to stand up and take a pragmatic approach: if you are known to the UK security services for anti Western extremist views and refuse to take an oath of allegiance to the UK (nor prepared to recant your belief in ISIS/Taliban/Al-Qaeda etc), then you automatically secure a one way cruise ticket on an oil tanker bound westward towards the setting sun and can be dropped off anywhere over the Mid Atlantic Ridge when the tanks require washing out. Job done.
Chris_D said:
My new fave word!
libtard
ˈlɪbtɑːd/
nounUSinformaloffensive
a person with left-wing political views
Mike
Sky-drive said:
Ok, so I'm playing devils advocate here....
Including the Westminster attack in March, 35 people have been killed in an appallingly violent manner by sick twisted individuals and the majority of the posters on this thread seem to be quite happy to demonise a section of society, remove their civil liberties, throw away the key etc etc.
In the same period, (10 weeks and 5 days) up to 375 people have been killed in road accidents (source: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/580347/Road-deaths-UK-research) and there are lots of people who would quite happily see this communities' civil liberties severely curtailed to reduce that number - and we would argue against it.
Things have to change, that much is clear, but you can bet the right answer won't be the simplistic one.
What seems obvious to me that there seem to be a lot of them not happy in their homeland yet come over to our western civilisation and are not happy with that either.
If they fight amongst themselves then us "infadels" dont stand a chance of pacifying the situation. Foreign aid doesn't seem to be appreciated does it?
If they fight amongst themselves then us "infadels" dont stand a chance of pacifying the situation. Foreign aid doesn't seem to be appreciated does it?
The foreign policy argument also puzzles me.
Jihadi born in Manchester of Tunisian descent, what has the UK done in Tunisia?
It now turns out, one of the cowards from the weekend was born in the UK of Pakistani descent?
I don't agree with much of our intervention abroad but It seems that any excuse they can give these idiots and somehow make it "our" fault.
Similar situation with intergration, there was a lady in a full face veil with only her eyes showing, on TV, saying that we need to do more to integrate with their societies!!!???
Someone needs to get a grip as surely, before long, we are going to see retaliatory attacks, which will really open a can of worms.
Jihadi born in Manchester of Tunisian descent, what has the UK done in Tunisia?
It now turns out, one of the cowards from the weekend was born in the UK of Pakistani descent?
I don't agree with much of our intervention abroad but It seems that any excuse they can give these idiots and somehow make it "our" fault.
Similar situation with intergration, there was a lady in a full face veil with only her eyes showing, on TV, saying that we need to do more to integrate with their societies!!!???
Someone needs to get a grip as surely, before long, we are going to see retaliatory attacks, which will really open a can of worms.
I think we should all "calm down" and maybe, turn to social media for help?
Joking of course...
And I also don't see how you can compare those killed on our roads, to those MURDERED in terrorist attacks....
Mike
Joking of course...
And I also don't see how you can compare those killed on our roads, to those MURDERED in terrorist attacks....
Mike
z4pilot said:
And of those 375 people killed in road traffic accidents how many met their demise as a result of a motorist waking up one morning and deciding todays the day they are going to head out in their car and bring death to British streets??? Comparing road deaths with deaths caused by terrorist atrocities doesn't really stack up ... its like trying to compare cheese and chocolate because they both contain milk!!
If an extremist is threatening to end my (or a member of my family) way of life through violent acts or the publicly encouraging of others to commit violence then I couldn't give two figs about their civil liberties ... they surrendered those the minute they succumbed to extremist ideology.
"Integration" is a pipe dream & will never happen , we have had long enough trying to know that now .
I appreciate there is no threat from the majority but as a nation the UK is now even more than any other time divided by the varied cultures & religions .
As with most things in life the minority is shouting louder than the majority but the brutal truth is we are way too far down the road to turn round
I'm 49 , can well remember the IRA antics but at least there was a "face" to work out deals with & the peace process there was a massive achievement for the UK ( possibly Blair's biggest ? ) unfortunately to negate that he thought it was a good move to open borders to all & even worse stir up the hornets nest of the middle east by removing Saddam which has to factor large in the destabilisation of the world as we know it now ?
Its a real mess & solutions seem impossible to achieve
I appreciate there is no threat from the majority but as a nation the UK is now even more than any other time divided by the varied cultures & religions .
As with most things in life the minority is shouting louder than the majority but the brutal truth is we are way too far down the road to turn round
I'm 49 , can well remember the IRA antics but at least there was a "face" to work out deals with & the peace process there was a massive achievement for the UK ( possibly Blair's biggest ? ) unfortunately to negate that he thought it was a good move to open borders to all & even worse stir up the hornets nest of the middle east by removing Saddam which has to factor large in the destabilisation of the world as we know it now ?
Its a real mess & solutions seem impossible to achieve
Sky-drive said:
You're missing the point I was trying to make... To begin with, I said I was playing devils advocate - so I'm taking a position with a view to stimulating debate.
I'm not trying to equate deaths due to road accidents with deaths due to terrorism - although all unnecessary deaths are shocking tragedies that can only bring untold misery to family and friends.
My point was more one of communities.
35 people die in terrorist attacks and because those deaths are perpetrated by people from a specific community that most of the contributors to this thread do not belong to, it results in knee jerk thinking and gung ho solutions.
375 people die as a result of something that as car enthusiasts we are much closer to, and have a more nuanced understanding of, and we don't see members on here calling for mass bannings or swingeing restrictions on car drivers do we?
Outside of the car enthusiast community though, you do see calls for tougher penalties, cars referred to as killing machines etc etc, because people will take a simplistic view of situations they don't fully understand.
It's a question of perspective, and I'm simply offering a view that the answer to resolving the problems we face with Islamic terrorism is more complex than the hang 'em high view that some are putting forward.
z4pilot said:
Make that thousands of deaths....that we know of.
it's not just this country that's suffering, all of Europe is. Then there's the rest of the world with Harem,et al.
The scary thing is, I personally can't see a solution. Preventative upto a point, maybe, but a concrete solution? Doubt it.
One thing I am certain of though, is that this is all down to the politicians, they're greed and hunger for oil and resources, and the men behind them pulling their strings. We have been arming rogue nations for decades, only the other week was an arms deal done with the Saudis.... worth billions of £££££. The government still hasn't learnt by their meddling in other people's affairs, creating huge instability overseas...many of which we where on the side of when it suited us. A huge hornets nest has been opened.