Monkey mans power adder

[GuidoK]

Yep. The top models are fully speccd. They do basic ones for race cars that don't have any mod cons like no abs and TCS etc but the better models are more for engine swap jobs and boost upgrades.

That doesnt fully answer my question. Primarily the canbus integration with the instrument binnacle and integration with the EWS.

Plug and play replacement for the factory DME:

https://www.scs-delta.co.uk/product-page/bmw-e46-330

Thats a replacement for an m54 in an 330i.
The e46 330i has a different ecu (ms43 instead of ms45) and has a different pinout schematic.
Z4 ecu's are much harder to emulate/tune (both z4 and z4m ecu's) than their e46 counterparts, but it looks promising; maybe they can do an alterated version. And I still doubt it will integrate with the EWS, because that is something that must be programmed (ecu and ews are linked with serial numbers in order for the ews to work). Why is this important? Because otherwise your car cant be insured against theft for example.

I've never seen an application (real life installed example) of an aftermarket ecu in a Z4 with full functionality compared to the stock ecu.
The z4 market is very limited, and ECU wise the z4 is a different car from the e46. The z4m guys have that same problem.

 

[Machine monkey]

Lots for me to look at.
Your right the can bus is a big problem. Witchbis why I would if I went stand-alone. Most likely run them in parallel. Basically the stock ecu would think it’s doing it’s job as usual. But in fact would just be controlling the chassis. The stand-alone would be controlling the engine. This has been done before. And the guy I would be getting to do it is confident it would work.

 

[Machine monkey]

Plug and play replacement for the factory DME:

https://www.scs-delta.co.uk/product-page/bmw-e46-330

I will take a look at this. But I think I have looked at this and dismissed it previously for being a bit basic. But if it works I might look again.

 

[Machine monkey]

If I go stand-alone it will be either a link or a haltech

 

[pokeybritches]

The issue is the tools to tune the ECU are outrageously expensive.

Injectors are easy to account for, once you have those tools. The injectors should have come with a matrix of values that are plugged into the tuned file.

The adjustments needed for the modified intake system are different and require a bit of tweaking. The transfer function for the MAF sensor can be figured out with a bit of trial and error (if you’ve modified the intake system at all, which you have in this case, then the transfer function changes... even if it is the same MAF sensor). You can probably get away with not tweaking the transfer function on your car, but it will only give you a tune that’s “close” and not optimal.

Most tuners don’t mess with the factory tables for part throttle / closed loop values, because once the injector values and intake is accounted for, the fuel trims are pretty close. Tuners extend the WOT / open loop maps and make their adjustments there. You’ll either need a data logger or dyno in addition to the software to edit the fuel maps.

To get the fuel maps, software companies decrypt the ECU and find patterns to determine fuel maps. These files are sold to tuners, who then make their tweaks (meaning there’s a cost involved, even if you do the tuning yourself). No one to my knowledge has cracked the MS45.0 DME and offered the ability to modify fuel tables via open source source software.

A dyno is preferable to have when you adjust the fuel tables. AFR, timing, Vanos adjustment, etc. are kinda up to the tuner, but there are standard techniques you can employ to get a solid, safe tune.

Even if you input the injector tables, modify the transfer function for the intake system and MAF, and get your open loop fuel tables right, you still need the software to remove things like the torque limiter that’s buried in the programming of the DME.

TLDR: Pay a reputable tuner, and not someone that offers a generic flash with slightly altered fuel tables for an otherwise standard car. When my supercharged Z4 was modified beyond the standard VF kit, the tuner had to build the files from scratch... which took days for a pro with his own personal dyno. My advice is to not try to tune it yourself, because the necessary tools are beyond the scope of your project.

 

[Mister T]

Plug and play replacement for the factory DME:

https://www.scs-delta.co.uk/product-page/bmw-e46-330

I will take a look at this. But I think I have looked at this and dismissed it previously for being a bit basic. But if it works I might look again.

My mate Gary (ap-tuning.co.uk) knows quite a lot about them, he's runs a Delta ECU in his Time Attack car. Would probably be worth having a chat with him about it.

https://www.facebook.com/RevoAPT/

 

[Bad_Pritt]

Monkey is at it again! What an insane, dangerous and crazy build!! I love it
I never heard of rear mounted turbos either, you could build a fake backbox with the turbos hidden in them, just for the fun of it. lol

Great build man, I'm following this one opcorn:

 

[Machine monkey]

Plug and play replacement for the factory DME:

https://www.scs-delta.co.uk/product-page/bmw-e46-330

I will take a look at this. But I think I have looked at this and dismissed it previously for being a bit basic. But if it works I might look again.

My mate Gary (ap-tuning.co.uk) knows quite a lot about them, he's runs a Delta ECU in his Time Attack car. Would probably be worth having a chat with him about it.

https://www.facebook.com/RevoAPT/

That’s great and just what I need a bit of reassurance on this. I have messaged them. To see if it will work in a z4 or if they can get to. I am coming round to this idea.

 

[Machine monkey]

The issue is the tools to tune the ECU are outrageously expensive.

Injectors are easy to account for, once you have those tools. The injectors should have come with a matrix of values that are plugged into the tuned file.

The adjustments needed for the modified intake system are different and require a bit of tweaking. The transfer function for the MAF sensor can be figured out with a bit of trial and error (if you’ve modified the intake system at all, which you have in this case, then the transfer function changes... even if it is the same MAF sensor). You can probably get away with not tweaking the transfer function on your car, but it will only give you a tune that’s “close” and not optimal.

Most tuners don’t mess with the factory tables for part throttle / closed loop values, because once the injector values and intake is accounted for, the fuel trims are pretty close. Tuners extend the WOT / open loop maps and make their adjustments there. You’ll either need a data logger or dyno in addition to the software to edit the fuel maps.

To get the fuel maps, software companies decrypt the ECU and find patterns to determine fuel maps. These files are sold to tuners, who then make their tweaks (meaning there’s a cost involved, even if you do the tuning yourself). No one to my knowledge has cracked the MS45.0 DME and offered the ability to modify fuel tables via open source source software.

A dyno is preferable to have when you adjust the fuel tables. AFR, timing, Vanos adjustment, etc. are kinda up to the tuner, but there are standard techniques you can employ to get a solid, safe tune.

Even if you input the injector tables, modify the transfer function for the intake system and MAF, and get your open loop fuel tables right, you still need the software to remove things like the torque limiter that’s buried in the programming of the DME.

TLDR: Pay a reputable tuner, and not someone that offers a generic flash with slightly altered fuel tables for an otherwise standard car. When my supercharged Z4 was modified beyond the standard VF kit, the tuner had to build the files from scratch... which took days for a pro with his own personal dyno. My advice is to not try to tune it yourself, because the necessary tools are beyond the scope of your project.

Thanks lots of good advice and knowlage I will be hopfilkt making lots of phone calls. Reading and thinking a lot next week!!

 

[Machine monkey]

Monkey is at it again! What an insane, dangerous and crazy build!! I love it
I never heard of rear mounted turbos either, you could build a fake backbox with the turbos hidden in them, just for the fun of it. lol

Great build man, I'm following this one opcorn:

Yeah it is a bit!! Thanks buddy

 

[Stevie.w]

The issue is the tools to tune the ECU are outrageously expensive.

Injectors are easy to account for, once you have those tools. The injectors should have come with a matrix of values that are plugged into the tuned file.

The adjustments needed for the modified intake system are different and require a bit of tweaking. The transfer function for the MAF sensor can be figured out with a bit of trial and error (if you’ve modified the intake system at all, which you have in this case, then the transfer function changes... even if it is the same MAF sensor). You can probably get away with not tweaking the transfer function on your car, but it will only give you a tune that’s “close” and not optimal.

Most tuners don’t mess with the factory tables for part throttle / closed loop values, because once the injector values and intake is accounted for, the fuel trims are pretty close. Tuners extend the WOT / open loop maps and make their adjustments there. You’ll either need a data logger or dyno in addition to the software to edit the fuel maps.

To get the fuel maps, software companies decrypt the ECU and find patterns to determine fuel maps. These files are sold to tuners, who then make their tweaks (meaning there’s a cost involved, even if you do the tuning yourself). No one to my knowledge has cracked the MS45.0 DME and offered the ability to modify fuel tables via open source source software.

A dyno is preferable to have when you adjust the fuel tables. AFR, timing, Vanos adjustment, etc. are kinda up to the tuner, but there are standard techniques you can employ to get a solid, safe tune.

Even if you input the injector tables, modify the transfer function for the intake system and MAF, and get your open loop fuel tables right, you still need the software to remove things like the torque limiter that’s buried in the programming of the DME.

TLDR: Pay a reputable tuner, and not someone that offers a generic flash with slightly altered fuel tables for an otherwise standard car. When my supercharged Z4 was modified beyond the standard VF kit, the tuner had to build the files from scratch... which took days for a pro with his own personal dyno. My advice is to not try to tune it yourself, because the necessary tools are beyond the scope of your project.

Hi Monkeys.
I’m feeling your pain bud, we think the mechanical side would always be the difficult bit but it’s always the area we struggle to do ourselves that causes us grief.
My MX5 Turbo project has similar tuning issues and I purchased the full EcuTek software and hardware. I’m using a very good mapper and have lost count of the man hrs he’s spent. If you manage to source software to break into the ecu there will be lots of head scratching. There’s so many different tables to work between and it’ll have to be done on hub dyno or rolling road. The current reflash score on my MX5 is over 350! I hope your successful in finding a solution to your problem. Mines has been on going for over a year, but we’re nearly there st1 270/270 of both flavours now we’re pushing for 330 ish.
Best of luck with your epic project

 

[Machine monkey]

Thanks Steve
Well it looks like the plug and play ECU is a non runner the company don’t seem keen to work at making it fit a z4.
And the plans to map the standard ecu seem to also be dead in the water. To much work and will probably cost more than a stand-alone.

So it’s bad news really. I am not sure what my next move is going to be.

 

[GuidoK]

So it’s bad news really. I am not sure what my next move is going to be.

You can ask daniel_f to make an XDF/Damos for the ms45 z4 ecu maybe. Then you (your tuner) can use tunerpro (freeware).
Or convert to ms43 and use tunerpro. The ms43 is better tunable for FI.

 

[Mister T]

Thanks Steve
Well it looks like the plug and play ECU is a non runner the company don’t seem keen to work at making it fit a z4.
And the plans to map the standard ecu seem to also be dead in the water. To much work and will probably cost more than a stand-alone.

So it’s bad news really. I am not sure what my next move is going to be.

That's odd as I'm sure the SCS Delta is the control ECU in the Z Cars Racing series (3.0L Z4). Maybe try Gary Feakins Racing direct?

 

[pokeybritches]

Thanks lots of good advice and knowlage I will be hopfilkt making lots of phone calls. Reading and thinking a lot next week!!

You can try TTFS. How much boost are you running?

 

[GuidoK]

That's odd as I'm sure the SCS Delta is the control ECU in the Z Cars Racing series (3.0L Z4). Maybe try Gary Feakins Racing direct?

I'm not sure but didnt they run them with a digital dash and custom loom? So a complete strip of the car? (aka racecar setup)

Gary Feakins racing is bankrupt afaik; someone on here even lost his hardtop I think in that process.
Steer clear of that guy!

 

[Machine monkey]

Trust me i have seen about this Gary fella!!! Giving him a WIDE birth that’s for sure.

Ok been a sh1tty few days for me my daughter has been ill. Nothing serious just a cold and a high temperature. She had an ambulance ride witch my wife said she found lots of fun. But she is on the mend.

As it stands......

SCS Delta might be taking my car to do some work to get the ecu to work?? If so they will then be offering a full plug and play ECU option for the z4. Nothing agreed and i maybe reading between the lines. I might also be getting 5 from 2+2!! But they have asked if my car is stock on the wiring loom side of things??? And a few other questions that lead me to this conclusion.

And i have been in talks with Advance Motorsport Engineering. They are local friendly and very knowledgeable. If option one does not work out with SCS i will be getting them to fit a link thunder and they have lots of experience getting them to work and getting the can bus up and running as it should.

 

[Machine monkey]

OK great news so far SCS seem keen on using my car as a test bed for developing a fully integrated plug n play ECU for the z4.

If it comes off maybe my hard work and many hours emailing and calling people could benifit others on hear. If you have a modified z4 this should be an amazing and fairly cheap (in the world of standalone ECUs) upgrade.

Cross your fingers forum friends that it works out.

 

[ph001]

That's amazing news!!! Well done for persisting.

 

[Machine monkey]

That's amazing news!!! Well done for persisting.

Haven’t crossed the I’sor dotted any T’s yet but it’s looking good this far.