Missing running in service evidence…

[TimG30si]

Hi all

I’m viewing a z4m roadster tomorrow. It looks a great example and the owner seems very genuine.

The only issue is a missing service book for its first few services, including the running in of course…

However, the car was sold through Rybrook BMW in Shrewsbury in 2010 as an approved used car and there is the BMW used car invoice and toad tax bill to prove that. Presumably bmw wouldn’t have sold a car as an approved used without the running in service and other services being completed according with the schedule?

I am comfortable with the more recent history, and i am fairly satisfied that the missing service book is a genuine case of being misplaced, but interested to hear what others think. I wouldn’t want to buy a car then have issues selling it on in the future due to the missing chunk of history...

If I do buy it I will immediately be getting an inspection 2 service and any other issues rectified.

Many thanks for any advice!

 

[john-e89]

Thing is Tim how many cars have got the book stamped but not actually had the running in service…? No one knows, it’s a lottery as far as the dealers are concerned imho, no way have they all had it done despite what the book says, and that’s from experience of a new car from BMW. Bottom line is if it’s running sweetly, no blue smoke, no adverse noises then that’s what you go on, service history is good but not gospel. You’ll never know how it’s been driven between services either, just because it may have had a service doesn’t mean it hasn’t been thrashed from cold between them, and vice versa. Lap of the gods tbh. Overall condition and how it sounds rule here. Just imho of course.

 

[Ole gits rule]

If you contact BMW with the reg and VIN then they can normally tell you the service history and provide a new service book or receipts to proof the service was done.

New book is £16

 

[M1k3yC]

Presumably bmw wouldn’t have sold a car as an approved used without the running in service and other services being completed according with the schedule?

Only BMW can answer this definitively, but in my experience BMW and Mini will sell (or attempt to sell) approved vehicles where the required service was carried out but overdue. I doubt that they can sell them if a service is missing entirely because, to be approved, the car must have a full service history I think - that doesn't mean that mistakes aren't made, though. I walked away from a used Mini at a dealership quite recently after I discovered that a required routine service was well overdue when it was carried out. I had to push very hard to determine this and see the full service print out. I learned in the process that if you buy any used car from BWM or Mini it's worth asking for a full print out of service history and work carried out because there's often more visits stored on BMW's system than in the iDrive or book.

Re. your potential car (and this is just my opinion) then I think it depends on the price and your future plans for it. If it's mechanically sound, priced correctly, and your comfortable buying it then there is no reason not to. When you come to sell it again, though, there are some people and specialist dealers that won't buy it without a full history and your sale price will have to reflect the part history. Personally, I'd only buy it if I could piece together the history by speaking to BMW because I wouldn't want the additional hassle at resale.

 

[tomscott]

Can you not get in touch with BMW run the VIN and get them to check the history then back fill the service history?

Service history is important but as been said its 15 years ago for most cars and if they are running sweet then its not the end of the world. Its a negotiation tool tho, cant get away from the fact that it can narrow your target audience come sell but can be a good negotiation tool for you to get it cheaper.

TBF bearings etc will be on the list for the majority of cars at this age so if its in the plan the run in isnt the end of the world. Mine was done at 1592 so was over but I doubt it makes much difference.

 

[PerryGunn]

Mine was done at 1592 so was over but I doubt it makes much difference.

Is the running-in service on the ///M supposed to be at 1200 miles?

If so, yours should have been within BMW's accepted range for a running-in service. I was told by a BMW Master Tech that if a running-in service is on the schedule the margin is -200/+500 miles - i.e. a 1200 mile service should be done between 1000 & 1700 miles.

 

[Ed Doe]

If you contact BMW with the reg and VIN then they can normally tell you the service history and provide a new service book or receipts to proof the service was done.

New book is £16

^^This - see if you can get hold of the service info from BMW before proceeding further. Amazing how lazy they seem to be not bothering to try and get the info as part of the BMW-approved sales process to be honest - easy money left on the table surely?!

As Tom and others have said though - it's a 15 year old car, and really if it's made it this far ok, chances are it'll be fine, but certainly missing service info is a negotiation tool. The other thing to bear in mind really is genuinely how much are you going to know about how the previous owners (including specifically the original owner from new) treated the car both before the running-in service was completed (even if it was done bang on the right mileage), and more generally when driving the car before the oil was at operating temperature? Unfortunately the answer is 'very little indeed' - so to some degree tick-boxes in the service book aren't really any guarantee of the internal engine condition.

I've always maintained that for me Rod Bearings are something I'd almost include as part of the purchase costs of an S54-engine'd car - for peace of mind, I would far rather get them done and know for certain how the car has been driven in my ownership on the new bearings, than take the risk of leaving the existing ones in there and hoping the previous owners had driven the car sympathetically from cold!

 

[tomscott]

Mine was done at 1592 so was over but I doubt it makes much difference.

Is the running-in service on the ///M supposed to be at 1200 miles?

If so, yours should have been within BMW's accepted range for a running-in service. I was told by a BMW Master Tech that if a running-in service is on the schedule the margin is -200/+500 miles - i.e. a 1200 mile service should be done between 1000 & 1700 miles.

Phew its not worthless

It was an early April registered 06 and BMW must have had it as a demo as it was in their ownership it was done. Annoying it wasn't a month earlier for the tax reduction benefit.

In all seriousness tho, thanks for the info.

 

[tomscott]

If you contact BMW with the reg and VIN then they can normally tell you the service history and provide a new service book or receipts to proof the service was done.

New book is £16

^^This - see if you can get hold of the service info from BMW before proceeding further. Amazing how lazy they seem to be not bothering to try and get the info as part of the BMW-approved sales process to be honest - easy money left on the table surely?!

As Tom and others have said though - it's a 15 year old car, and really if it's made it this far ok, chances are it'll be fine, but certainly missing service info is a negotiation tool. The other thing to bear in mind really is genuinely how much are you going to know about how the previous owners (including specifically the original owner from new) treated the car both before the running-in service was completed (even if it was done bang on the right mileage), and more generally when driving the car before the oil was at operating temperature? Unfortunately the answer is 'very little indeed' - so to some degree tick-boxes in the service book aren't really any guarantee of the internal engine condition.

I've always maintained that for me Rod Bearings are something I'd almost include as part of the purchase costs of an S54-engine'd car - for peace of mind, I would far rather get them done and know for certain how the car has been driven in my ownership on the new bearings, than take the risk of leaving the existing ones in there and hoping the previous owners had driven the car sympathetically from cold!

Something that I never understood is the 1200 miles service is the run in... when people are having the bearings replaced it has been widely reported people aren't advised to have another run in 1200 afterward but heading back to the usual schedule. I would have thought another run in would be needed.

 

[AndyBeech]

If you contact BMW with the reg and VIN then they can normally tell you the service history and provide a new service book or receipts to proof the service was done.

New book is £16

^^This - see if you can get hold of the service info from BMW before proceeding further. Amazing how lazy they seem to be not bothering to try and get the info as part of the BMW-approved sales process to be honest - easy money left on the table surely?!

As Tom and others have said though - it's a 15 year old car, and really if it's made it this far ok, chances are it'll be fine, but certainly missing service info is a negotiation tool. The other thing to bear in mind really is genuinely how much are you going to know about how the previous owners (including specifically the original owner from new) treated the car both before the running-in service was completed (even if it was done bang on the right mileage), and more generally when driving the car before the oil was at operating temperature? Unfortunately the answer is 'very little indeed' - so to some degree tick-boxes in the service book aren't really any guarantee of the internal engine condition.

I've always maintained that for me Rod Bearings are something I'd almost include as part of the purchase costs of an S54-engine'd car - for peace of mind, I would far rather get them done and know for certain how the car has been driven in my ownership on the new bearings, than take the risk of leaving the existing ones in there and hoping the previous owners had driven the car sympathetically from cold!

Something that I never understood is the 1200 miles service is the run in... when people are having the bearings replaced it has been widely reported people aren't advised to have another run in 1200 afterward but heading back to the usual schedule. I would have thought another run in would be needed.

Why? Run in isn’t for the benefit of the bearings….oil change after 1000 or so miles is fair enough just in case any contaminants while the job was being done are flushed out but they are either fitted correctly or not. The original running in service is for the benefit of the pistons if I’m not mistaken.

 

[Ed Doe]

Something that I never understood is the 1200 miles service is the run in... when people are having the bearings replaced it has been widely reported people aren't advised to have another run in 1200 afterward but heading back to the usual schedule. I would have thought another run in would be needed.

I'm in no way qualified to offer more than speculation as to why BMW recommended a run-in period with the engines from-new - but if I had to speculate I'd say that they may have specified a different grade of oil for the initial run-in period which was not appropriate for using the full range of the engine, or would not offer the right protection at higher temperatures but would offer greater cold-start protection whilst the engine was new and the tolerances were perhaps tighter. After 1200miles, where presumably things have bedded in, the thicker grade of oil could then be used?
Alternatively it could be to do with ensuring other parts of the engine wear in generally in a less stressed manner - but again that's speculation as well.

In regard to new Rod Bearings - under normal operation there should be sufficient oil film as to have no contact between crank and bearing material - hence it follows that a 'run-in' period is not required after replacing the rod bearings. Having had mine done - even thought this was the advice given to me by Redish, I still opted to put 1000miles onto the engine and then do an oil service before really opening it up - having spent the money I was loathe to see it end in tears!!

 

[AndyBeech]

Something that I never understood is the 1200 miles service is the run in... when people are having the bearings replaced it has been widely reported people aren't advised to have another run in 1200 afterward but heading back to the usual schedule. I would have thought another run in would be needed.

In regard to new Rod Bearings - under normal operation there should be sufficient oil film as to have no contact between crank and bearing material - hence it follows that a 'run-in' period is not required after replacing the rod bearings. Having had mine done - even thought this was the advice given to me by Redish, I still opted to put 1000miles onto the engine and then do an oil service before really opening it up - having spent the money I was loathe to see it end in tears!!

Basically same as what I did, just in case....though yeah the garage I used said it was basically a waste of money and not to bother. I guess the only other train of thought is that if the job *hasn't* been done properly and something fails then it'll happen at a lower rpm if you're 'running it in' but let's face it if that happens it'll be going back to the garage for a full rebuild for free anyway :lol:

 

[TomK]

I'm in no way qualified to offer more than speculation as to why BMW recommended a run-in period with the engines from-new - but if I had to speculate I'd say that they may have specified a different grade of oil for the initial run-in period which was not appropriate for using the full range of the engine, or would not offer the right protection at higher temperatures but would offer greater cold-start protection whilst the engine was new and the tolerances were perhaps tighter. After 1200miles, where presumably things have bedded in, the thicker grade of oil could then be used?

I think most people thought this (myself included) but it was confirmed by BMW germany thanks to a member on here.. fishydave that the oil used on delivery and that used to replace it at the RIS is the standard 10W60. There is a thread on here somewhere with the letter from BMW stating this.
I'm sure it would have been nice to replace the oil and filter on time with respect to the RIS, but 50,000 miles+ later it wouldn't bother me in the slightest really, I think there are many more significant factors at play over that time period than a slightly early/late RIS. Useful bargaining chip though for sure.
Rod bearing job shouldn't really require any running in as such, maybe best to not let rip on it straight away but the new bedding in procedure for an engine is not much concerned with those.

 

[TimG30si]

Thanks for all the advice guys, nice to hear some different views.

BMW Uk were able to confirm it visited a centre 10 days after it was registered, but unfortunately they don’t keep records of what the visit was for that far back. Sounds almost certain it would have been the RIS so that’s pretty reassuring.

Cheers all

 

[mmm-five]

Thanks for all the advice guys, nice to hear some different views.

BMW Uk were able to confirm it visited a centre 10 days after it was registered, but unfortunately they don’t keep records of what the visit was for that far back. Sounds almost certain it would have been the RIS so that’s pretty reassuring.

Cheers all

I was going to say that 1200 miles in 10 days in a brand new car is quite a lot, but I did that in less than a week when I had my new engine fitted under warranty

 

[Mr Tidy]

I think it's all been covered pretty well already.

Personally I wouldn't be too worried about the missing details if the car is still running fine nearly 15 years later! But I'd want it priced to reflect that knowing that I'd have the same issue again wehn I came to sell.

I'm not sure what mileage it has done, but if you are thinking of getting the bearing shells replaced get them done at the same time as the Inspection 2. That way you'll save the cost of an oil filter and 5.5 litres of 10W/60 - don't ask how I know. :roll:

 

[craig3.2]

I think it's all been covered pretty well already.

Personally I wouldn't be too worried about the missing details if the car is still running fine nearly 15 years later! But I'd want it priced to reflect that knowing that I'd have the same issue again wehn I came to sell.

I'm not sure what mileage it has done, but if you are thinking of getting the bearing shells replaced get them done at the same time as the Inspection 2. That way you'll save the cost of an oil filter and 5.5 litres of 10W/60 - don't ask how I know. :roll:

Yeah,I did the same mistake,chose to do rod bearing shells and bolts only 1500 miles after an Inspection 1 service (although that was a year in Lockdown, I should have planned it better too).