Beedub said:
Angelus666 said:
At what price point would a new Z4M become unattractive....if it was close to £70k (which given the M4 price it would likely be) would people really buy one over a Boxster/Cayman GTS, GT4 or Spyder?
Having been in a CSL, M5 and Z4MC, and loving the M cars for their good and bad points, I have to say in almost every department it's miles off the Porsche product. Trying not to sound too much like a fan boy, but I think the gap is as big between them as an M car is to a regular Golf or equivalent.
interesting POV and i love this type of discussion... let me chime in, i test drove a gt4 against my z4m, back to back...... and i thoroughly enjoyed it, but i must be honest it definitely did not feel like the leap i expected. Now as we know my car is significantly modified, in pretty much every department and still it could be built for much less than a gt4 / spyder. In no department can i say the gt4 massively bettered it and in terms of raw performance my old relic absolutely kicks into next week.
i believe i a proper new z4m with the s58 with some proper ///M division tweaks would offer a very real challenge to the boxster / cayman / Gt4 / spyder.
ill take you out in it when u bring over the gt3 rs... i think you'll be surprised.
I'll definitely take you up on that, a 500 bhp Z would be interesting to compare against the lower powered GT3RS! What does yours do the 0-60 run time compared to stock?
Here's my view when you compare and contrast the detail of the M product versus the Porsche product. (*I appreciate the Porsche product is more expensive, so these comparisons are not always apples for apples)
Gearbox - The manual box in my M is/was appalling, I even had it replaced with a new one and that was honestly just as bad. Maybe we all convince ourselves it's a quirk of the car, but 1st to 2nd is just crap, it's bordering on being unacceptable. Downshifting in it never really felt an enjoyable aspect either, just more bluntness. Then when you drive a manual Porsche it is just so enjoyable shifting the gears (I'll admit the gearing in the GT4 is too long)...and the PDK is also faster, smarter, and far more engaging than the DCT.
Steering - The hydraulic steering is the M was always seen as one of the major plus points, but in reality, it offered far less feedback and feel than the electric rack in my 981. Going between the two cars really highlighted how poor the steering was on the M, the overly chunky wheel created a numbness that I didn't really noticed until you jumped in the 981 afterwards.
Brakes - I'm pretty sure no Porsche owner has ever 'upgraded' their set up by putting BMW brakes on their car (of course this a popular mod the other way around). In my view the brakes on the M were not that bad, but the problem they had is that after 15 mins of B road blasts you can feel them start to go off. That doesn't happen in the Porsche.
Chassis - I really don't think there is a comparison here, the BMW product lacks any real sophistication compared to the Porsche. Where the 981 is far more composed at any speed, and compliant across different types of road surface. I guess if you spend £3k on KW's you can get something closer to the Porsche level, but almost all the M cars I've been in love the past 15 years (including M2 and M4) are hampered by a skittish ride that crashes over the road and doesn't really feel sporty and adds nothing to the driving experience. I guess you could say that these are more of a challenge to master, and you need to learn to drive over and around these traits, but I felt they made the car very unpredictable. Saying all of that though, I could have more fun at lower speed in the MC, it would break traction on roundabouts at pretty low speed and was a predictable slide....wheres as the 981 needed another 15mph to do the same thing, which makes a big difference to your confidence/ability to manage the slide.
Engine - I'll definitely say the S54 is a unique piece of engine history, with the ITB and it's range of noises it was the highlight of the car for me. The MC never really delivered the event that the CSL did, but the Gruppe M was 50% of the noise at 20% of the cost. The flat 6 in the 981 is lovely, but it doesn't have the range of noises that the S54 has. I felt my 981 GTS had a much better engine/exhaust set up than any of the 4 exhaust options I had on the MC.
Interior quality - The M is fairly low rent and cheap by comparison to a moderately specced 981. The rattles and creaks just become part of the car and it did really annoy me at times.
Looks - to me, the Z4MC is one of the best looking BMW's ever made. A nicely modded one still looks the part today and it's rarity on the road creates real presence. I think a 981 Cayman is a good looking car, but it's not as interesting to look at as the MC (other than the GT4). The 981 Boxster is a much better looking car than the MR.
Community - we are lucky that the Z has a really great forum, it is genuinely one of the main reasons why I held onto the car for so long. The Porsche community is pretty vast, lots of forums but none are as good as this one has been.
Overall, in my opinion, if you are looking at total cost of ownership then I'd say spending £30k on a decent 981 is money better spent than £20k on a standard Z4M. It'll be cheaper to run, you can get a manufacturer warranty, cheaper to service, and you'll get more back come sale time.
North West Surrey
