Lee, Driven both & auto is fantastic. I thought that too,i like the manual. but only 1 option for me, should try the auto it`s the better option 
M235i VS Lexus IS-F Destroyed
- Thread starter tomscott
- Start date
Nothing against the AutoKERMIT1970 said:Lee, Driven both & auto is fantastic. I thought that too,i like the manual. but only 1 option for me, should try the auto it`s the better option
I have the ancient ZF6 speed Auto in my 330i and my other half has a Twin Clutch with paddles in hers plus I had driven the DCT E92 M3 before I opted to buy one with the Manual, I just get bored easily with two pedals/paddles but appreciate that they are quicker and change gear like lightening but I just cant fall in love with them.My heart just lies with three pedals and a stick...I belong in the dark ages!
My next car will be a Manual that I do know for sure.
The last M3 (e92) was 'subtle' in terms of styling compared to the E46.
This 2 series leaves me very cold. The picture from the side could be anything. The exhausts look tiny and the back looks like it's been pinched in a vice.
Oh BMW, I know times change but ///M badges used to be reserved for things of real beauty or cars that at least looked the part... This is neither.
It's only an ///M in Marketing terms, not in Motorsport terms. BMW's exploitation of the ///M brand is the main reason why I'm thinking of changing my M5 for something like the IS-F, and the Z4M for a 996 Turbo.sk93 said:tasty motors, the both of them... but the //M wins for me
That's cutting your noise off to spite your face though surely? If you love the way an M car drives and looks then buy one. Isn't that what really matters? As far as the road cars go, M hasn't had any real connection with Motorsport since the E30 M3. I don't think a 996 turbo or IS-F have a rich Motorsport history either do they? The Porsche brand does but Lexus doesn't.
Bradders75
Senior member
/M snobs. Gotta love 'em.
A good car is a good car. I've gone for an M-lite because it suits my needs but it doesn't make an M3/M4/M5 etc. any less special.
A good car is a good car. I've gone for an M-lite because it suits my needs but it doesn't make an M3/M4/M5 etc. any less special.
It's not about ///M snobbery - it's about the whole direction that the company is taking.
I used to be a huge Porschephile - had a whole string of them. Then Porsche became less and less interested in their heritage and in going racing, and more interested in selling family cars. Now when I go to a Porsche dealership, it's all about diesel Cayennes and Macans and, if you are very lucky, there might be a couple of 911s hidden around the back.
Equally with BMW. The Motorsport division used to stand for engineering excellence, and produced road cars that were closer to the race cars than the road cars of their day. Now that BMW has built up the ///M brand, they have handed it over to the Marketing department. It mostly started with bits of trim (steering wheels and "M Sport" suspension) and now they are badging whole cars with the ///M tag. It might sell more cars to reps, but I can't see many sports car fans staying with the brand.
At least the IS-F does what it says on the tin. Yes, it's a Lexus and no, they don't have a motorsport history, but it's not pretending to be something that it patently isn't, unlike the latest BMW "M" offerings.
I used to be a huge Porschephile - had a whole string of them. Then Porsche became less and less interested in their heritage and in going racing, and more interested in selling family cars. Now when I go to a Porsche dealership, it's all about diesel Cayennes and Macans and, if you are very lucky, there might be a couple of 911s hidden around the back.
Equally with BMW. The Motorsport division used to stand for engineering excellence, and produced road cars that were closer to the race cars than the road cars of their day. Now that BMW has built up the ///M brand, they have handed it over to the Marketing department. It mostly started with bits of trim (steering wheels and "M Sport" suspension) and now they are badging whole cars with the ///M tag. It might sell more cars to reps, but I can't see many sports car fans staying with the brand.
At least the IS-F does what it says on the tin. Yes, it's a Lexus and no, they don't have a motorsport history, but it's not pretending to be something that it patently isn't, unlike the latest BMW "M" offerings.
I can't agree with that Philip. There's not an M car ever made that was closer to a race car than a road car. The closest they've got is probably the M3 homologated cars from the E30 era or perhaps the M3 GTS. It's always been about marketing. M cars are there to promote the BMW brand and cover it in glory and it's been a huge success for them. Why do you think Audi and Mercedes launched sub-brands of RS and AMG?
The sad fact is, that people aren't buying out and out performance cars anymore. The TT sold 18k cars worldwide last year, the Zed even less and I think the Boxster/Cayman was somewhere in the middle. That's why there are lots of Evoque's, Macan's, Cayenne's, Q5's/X5's out there - because more and more people are buying them instead of sports cars. Sad, but true.
What does an IS-F "say on the tin" then? It's a blinged up, souped up Toyota without any proper race parentage. Wait a minute....that'll be the same as an M3/4/RS4/5 and C63 AMG then.
The sad fact is, that people aren't buying out and out performance cars anymore. The TT sold 18k cars worldwide last year, the Zed even less and I think the Boxster/Cayman was somewhere in the middle. That's why there are lots of Evoque's, Macan's, Cayenne's, Q5's/X5's out there - because more and more people are buying them instead of sports cars. Sad, but true.
What does an IS-F "say on the tin" then? It's a blinged up, souped up Toyota without any proper race parentage. Wait a minute....that'll be the same as an M3/4/RS4/5 and C63 AMG then.
These aren't M cars and BMW isn't trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes… its more because they needed to fill a gap they had missing in the market with the likes of the S series by Audi etc
They are basically more potent versions of top of the class and come with some nice upgrades. I don't have a problem with that.
The M cars are always special cars what ever they are. If anything it might sell more M cars as it adds another level of model selection and lust. Hence why we get so many upgrade threads… "what would you buy"
At least the M3 is raced in touring car championships and does pretty well. Am I right in saying the IS-F was pretty much said to be good but not as good as the M3 and RS4 therefore not many were sold?
Also I think the lack of sportscar sales says as much for the economy, that people go with a safer bet that fills two needs a family car and something they can enjoy which is where the 235i fills the gap, does cost quite as much to run but is 90% the car on the road.
If anything the M235i and M135I fill this gap brilliantly and are cracking cars.
They are basically more potent versions of top of the class and come with some nice upgrades. I don't have a problem with that.
The M cars are always special cars what ever they are. If anything it might sell more M cars as it adds another level of model selection and lust. Hence why we get so many upgrade threads… "what would you buy"
At least the M3 is raced in touring car championships and does pretty well. Am I right in saying the IS-F was pretty much said to be good but not as good as the M3 and RS4 therefore not many were sold?
Also I think the lack of sportscar sales says as much for the economy, that people go with a safer bet that fills two needs a family car and something they can enjoy which is where the 235i fills the gap, does cost quite as much to run but is 90% the car on the road.
If anything the M235i and M135I fill this gap brilliantly and are cracking cars.
Bradders75
Senior member
tomscott said:
Great post Tom and sums up my thoughts exactly. I see my car as on a par with the Audi S models, which is fine by me. Do I think the M135i pulls the wool over anyone's eyes and dilutes the brand? Certainly not, you only have to drive one to realise that. Quick but naff steering feel, artificial engine noise and excessive body roll on non-adaptive suspension. The purists can still buy an M3 knowing that it's the result of decades of BMW engineering and development whilst operating within the contstrainsts of the modern market (emissions etc.)
I honestly can't fathom why the full fat /M models suddenly become a turn-off because of the models below it. I've got a mental image of someone driving an F30 M3, secretly really enjoying it but spitting feathers because they spotted a 320D in the car park with an M-sport steering wheel fitted to it.
You only have to drive a E92 M3 to understand who the M brand is aimed at nowadays as its comfort first and foremost and they are just so grown up and that car has made me actually lose faith in the car as an icon and if anything its pushed me more towards the sub M brand as the running costs don't justify the reward in terms of the E92 M3 for me but I do have very large expectations for the next one as on paper that seems like it could be a better bet.
I appreciate the M3 has always been a road car but I enjoyed both the E36/E46 M3`s far more than the E92 M3 as that treads too close to a 5 series in the way it drives/weighs.
I appreciate the M3 has always been a road car but I enjoyed both the E36/E46 M3`s far more than the E92 M3 as that treads too close to a 5 series in the way it drives/weighs.
I think as a daily the E92 is a pain and may have you feeling it's not as special, but certainly a fun car to drive the things like a rocket!! Loved every drive out when we had one! They missed the mark slightly with it but still a brilliant brilliant car!
That engine is a corker.
Driving my Z daily makes me feel like that, then a few days of not driving it makes me fall for it all over again!
That engine is a corker.
Driving my Z daily makes me feel like that, then a few days of not driving it makes me fall for it all over again!