M market watch

[tomscott]

Gotta love a silver grey car

Bit leggy but right money...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Z4M-Roadster-3-2i-Manual-Convertible-Silver-Grey-with-Black-Leather-/252707890951?hash=item3ad6906707:g:XXkAAOSw5cNYFme5

I saw this car while our R53 JCW was having some work done. Its MINT!

Depends on your definition of mint

It looks good condition for mileage. Problem with buying a car at this mileage is that for piece of mind I would be spending £1000+ off the bat. Its at the point where it will need preventative maintenance imo at that price point its just not worth it. Its teetering on that point where if the mileage gets much higher it will be in 100+ and from watching the market they just don't sell and moving it on will be a problem, also Ok it gets a 6 month warranty but unless its a BMW warranty how much is it worth... if its a warranty direct then completely worthless. At nearly 14k for a car that's 11 years old with 82k and average doing 6-8k in the car it will be at 100k in no time. Regardless of how bullet proof they are compared to other cars in the bracket you cant get away from the fact that the money needs to be spent. 11 year old rubber engine mounts etc... worth baring in mind before thinking they are great value.

Like Andy says this is becoming the norm. It will be a great driver but its not much of a keeper. At <12k it would be a good buy imo.

Every M for sale ATM has issues, be that crap, late or missing history, mileage, wear in places you don't expect, questionable items like tyres which makes you wonder what else has been skimped on, silly modifications, high mileage and most silly money. Suppose its because like the E46 M3s a few years ago they hit such a cheap price point that they were in the sights of a lot of people that maybe didn't realise the importance and cost of maintenance. Now they are increasing in value lots of specialist dealers are jumping on the bandwagon and every car is at a premium and with the above issue makes buying one now a minefield.

After viewing a few cars now and watching for over 12 months just feels like

 

[VRSteve]

Gotta love a silver grey car

Bit leggy but right money...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Z4M-Roadster-3-2i-Manual-Convertible-Silver-Grey-with-Black-Leather-/252707890951?hash=item3ad6906707:g:XXkAAOSw5cNYFme5

I saw this car while our R53 JCW was having some work done. Its MINT!

Depends on your definition of mint

It looks good condition for mileage. Problem with buying a car at this mileage is that for piece of mind I would be spending £1000+ off the bat. Its at the point where it will need preventative maintenance imo at that price point its just not worth it. Its teetering on that point where if the mileage gets much higher it will be in 100+ and from watching the market they just don't sell and moving it on will be a problem, also Ok it gets a 6 month warranty but unless its a BMW warranty how much is it worth... if its a warranty direct then completely worthless. At nearly 14k for a car that's 11 years old with 82k and average doing 6-8k in the car it will be at 100k in no time. Regardless of how bullet proof they are compared to other cars in the bracket you cant get away from the fact that the money needs to be spent. 11 year old rubber engine mounts etc... worth baring in mind before thinking they are great value.

Like Andy says this is becoming the norm. It will be a great driver but its not much of a keeper. At <12k it would be a good buy imo.

Every M for sale ATM has issues, be that crap, late or missing history, mileage, wear in places you don't expect, questionable items like tyres which makes you wonder what else has been skimped on, silly modifications, high mileage and most silly money. Suppose its because like the E46 M3s a few years ago they hit such a cheap price point that they were in the sights of a lot of people that maybe didn't realise the importance and cost of maintenance. Now they are increasing in value lots of specialist dealers are jumping on the bandwagon and every car is at a premium and with the above issue makes buying one now a minefield.

After viewing a few cars now and watching for over 12 months just feels like

Maybe you expect too much????
Any car of this age will need something, if you expect a car that needs nothing when you buy it, buy something new!!!

 

[jimmybell]

I'd also suggest you're expecting too much from that above linked example. These cars are 10+years old now, and not expensive. They are not going to be in factory condition unless they've done under 20k miles and religiously maintained/driven.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201610178852749

 

[srhutch]

We clearly have the same Indy!

Bit of a drive, but only heard good things. ML are much closer but still get mixed reviews

Due there for oil/brake service in March.

They are only 20mins from me, so I'm lucky in that respect.

I did visit ML once, never again!

How long ago was that, and was that with the old owners?

 

[VRSteve]

Bit of a drive, but only heard good things. ML are much closer but still get mixed reviews

Due there for oil/brake service in March.

They are only 20mins from me, so I'm lucky in that respect.

I did visit ML once, never again!

How long ago was that, and was that with the old owners?

About 18months ago.

I wasn't visiting as a customer, I was dropping some springs off for ex forum member Nina.
Parked the M on the forecourt, struggled in through the door while the sales guys watched and made no effort to help, and when I dropped the springs off to the service desk I got spoken to like I was an idiot.

 

[tomscott]

I'd also suggest you're expecting too much from that above linked example. These cars are 10+years old now, and not expensive. They are not going to be in factory condition unless they've done under 20k miles and religiously maintained/driven.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201610178852749

Maybe you expect too much????
Any car of this age will need something, if you expect a car that needs nothing when you buy it, buy something new!!!

No not expecting too much the comment was in response to the car being "mint" just wanted to add me 2p to why it wont be as you both have pointed out and not to expect it to be. The fact is the car will need money spent on it to get it to a position where it will be 100% reliable. A good proposition on paper but the hidden cost of mounts, half shaft bearings being serviceable items at this age and mileage etc

Also the M posted above was bought by a forum member in Dec and the car has remained there for no reason it would seem. Still silly money not worth it imo.

 

[mr wilks]

I think the game now for buyers looking to get into M cars without losing their shirt is either a very lengthy + stringent tick list that will most likely mean many wasted trips viewing potential cars that won't make the grade or buy in at a figure that gives a reasonable amount of spend to get the car as you would want it .
Guess it also depends on what you expect the car to do for you :?
10yrs & rising i just don't see them as daily drives adding 7k/10k a year , not that they wouldn't perform but you'd hammer both the car & its value within no time at all & no matter how careful you were they would soon show signs of wear & tear

The one id view first if i was looking (ive no idea what this car is like in the real ) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-06-BMW-Z4-3-2-M-ROADSTER-CONVERTIBLE-SAPPHIRE-BLACK-/131874741202?hash=item1eb458dbd2:g:jmsAAOSwMsVXjikS

lets say £12750 ( maybe even £12500) drove it away & service history was all up to date ( so ins2 within last 15k/20k ) , depending on condition of brakes ( budget £250 a corner if tired) you could throw some £1500/£2000 at the car & add maybe 20kmiles over the coming 3 years & still draw most of your money back if the market goes as many predict it will :wink:

At some point there has to be a risk = reward decision

 

[VRSteve]

I'd also suggest you're expecting too much from that above linked example. These cars are 10+years old now, and not expensive. They are not going to be in factory condition unless they've done under 20k miles and religiously maintained/driven.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201610178852749

Maybe you expect too much????
Any car of this age will need something, if you expect a car that needs nothing when you buy it, buy something new!!!

No not expecting too much the comment was in response to the car being "mint" just wanted to add me 2p to why it wont be as you both have pointed out and not to expect it to be. The fact is the car will need money spent on it to get it to a position where it will be 100% reliable. A good proposition on paper but the hidden cost of mounts, half shaft bearings being serviceable items at this age and mileage etc

Also the M posted above was bought by a forum member in Dec and the car has remained there for no reason it would seem. Still silly money not worth it imo.

Your definition of mint is then radically different from mine and jimmybell. You think mint is perfect as it would be out the factory. My definition is very very good for its age, which that car undoubtedly is. You will have hidden costs on any car you buy of this age, I think you are taking this far too literally.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd be interested to see a list of the cars that have sold in the Z3M market recently. Most that I see (and they do change so must be selling) are on 100k+ miles. So owners must have gone through the same point we're all talking about now, i.e. is 82k really an issue? I guess it also depends on what you're buying the car for - "future proofed" "classic" that "will increase in value"... or a great sports car that you know, as with most pieces of metal, you'll lose money on.

 

[afennell]

With any 10 year old car I feel you have to expect part are going to show signs of wear.
When the word mint is used, I expect it to be a very clean example taking into consideration age and millage.
Sounds like your expecting Concours condition.
If it has lots of receipts to read through and drives well, then you’re taking the same gamble as you are with any car.
If you buy it for 13k, keep it for 3-4 years and sell for 10K because it has 100k mile on the clock it’s a good deal in my eyes.

 

[Z4M-2006]

Is a truly "mint" example even available now ?

Anything over 30k miles and the front will be chipped,windscreens,skirts usually get peppered too...

Discs will be on the brink of changing,all the bushes and suspension will be 10 years old..

So,if all potential fault was rectified would that than pass muster,or would a repainted nose etc etc not be classed as mint ?

 

[MrPT]

Mint is mint, surely? As in, err, "fresh from minting". :?

If owners are holding onto all the good cars, and the market is currently over-valuing sub-par examples that aren't shifting, doesn't this mean that higher discounts should be achievable right now for a well-informed buyer?

 

[pHilli0]

When I bought my Z4MC it was at 82k. I was expecting to have to spend out on it to get it up to as close to "mint" as I could. Every car I have ever bought has needed around 1,500 spent to do the jobs the previous owner put off as the car was being prepared for sale mentally. I had 2k put aside for any work.

When the cams needed replacing, I got the work done asap, and went with uprated components, and got all the other work done at the same time that would help to keep the engine in excellent condition (strip down, new followers, new head gasket, oil pump inspection, vanos inspection, bottom end bearing shells) plus anything wider that should be replaced.
These were not *shock* costs, OK yea I was unlucky the cams failed at all, as they seem to randomly, but I didn't really care, as after the work I knew exactly the state of the engine and the work that has been done to it. Whenever I drive the car I do so with confidence.

So going into an S54 powered sports car should not be done where the owner is not prepared to do whatever is necessary to get the car to an excellent condition and maintain it at that level. If that is not possible, do not buy, and just get a lesser Z or a different car altogether.

 

[mr wilks]

OK yea I was unlucky the cams failed at all, as they seem to randomly .

"unlucky" & "random" may or may not be the case as its virtually impossible to define a reason for each & every fail but didn't you track your car very recently before the noise started & wasn't the car due a oil change at that point ? :?
Apologies if ive got my cars/owners wrong but if i haven't then "unlucky" & "random" is kind of implying it could happen to anyone's seemingly healthy S54 at any time

 

[pHilli0]

OK yea I was unlucky the cams failed at all, as they seem to randomly .

"unlucky" & "random" may or may not be the case as its virtually impossible to define a reason for each & every fail but didn't you track your car very recently before the noise started & wasn't the car due a oil change at that point ? :?
Apologies if ive got my cars/owners wrong but if i haven't then "unlucky" & "random" is kind of implying it could happen to anyone's seemingly healthy S54 at any time

When I first did the first track day, there was nothing to indicate there was a problem with the cams, the engine was not knocking or ticking loudly at idle. The car was due an oil service in 3000 or so miles. If I had hindsight, I would have got the oil changed before I went to the track but I was not an expert on the S54 and thought there would be enough head room between oil services, as the car had been maintained as per the service records on target.

A few weeks later, I had the oil change done and then investigations by BMW tech and my indy, and neither could clearly determine why the engine was ticking and I was told the S54 does that. I had the shims done to try and help but that fixed nothing. It was weeks later I posted my forum entry asking for help diagnosing it, as it was slowly increasing in volume as the car was driven.

I believe the cams had been wearing over a long period, and eventually gave up. If the track accelerated that process I can not say, if it was caused by incorrect maintenance years ago, who knows. But I would imply that any problems that happen with the S54 should not be a shock to anyone, its luck more than judgement as has been said many times before in the forum. You just have to be ready with the wallet to get the car put back to excellent.

 

[Angelus666]

I think people waiting for a 'mint' car at under £20k will be waiting a long time. I think part of the 'fun' of owning one is spending a little money to get it in to good shape....then driving it properly so the front end gets pebble dashed once again and the tyres wear down a lot quicker than expected!

 

[mr wilks]

Totally agree mate ( pHilli0 ) , anyone buying a S54 should be aware what routine maintenance is required & when along with a contingency plan "should" anything serious go wrong
Non of us are experts that i know of & only have our own opinions but i studied & digested long & hard (not just on here) before i bought my first ///ZM & one thing they don't like is engine heat & another is cold thrashing added to those what i believe is crucial to S54 longevity & that is oil :? not just when its changed but also the quality & keeping it at correct levels
Cam + follower wear is most likely lack of lube ( or dirty oil ? ) so avoiding that should ensure that you avoid major meltdowns
No-one could say for sure that yours was due to tracking but its entirely possible that 5,6,7 hard track laps would far exceed any previous heat cycle or demands the car would have previously endured ? Just my own thoughts of course & could be completely off the grid with them
Glad you got the car sorted & at the same time upgraded , its clear you are enjoying your Mc & creating a bespoke car at the same time

 

[mr wilks]

I think people waiting for a 'mint' car at under £20k will be waiting a long time. I think part of the 'fun' of owning one is spending a little money to get it in to good shape....then driving it properly so the front end gets pebble dashed once again and the tyres wear down a lot quicker than expected!

Agreed , part of the bond is the work you have done & no point having them & not driving them

 

[paulgs1000]

Trying to get the balance right with mine . . . . can't mentally approach it the same as I did with my previous Zeds though I did have a wonderfully carefree run out in it on New Years Day so maybe my attitude is changing . . . we shall see :lol:

 

[mr wilks]

Trying to get the balance right with mine . . . . can't mentally approach it the same as I did with my previous Zeds though I did have a wonderfully carefree run out in it on New Years Day so maybe my attitude is changing . . . we shall see :lol:

Yea its difficult , i know i went at my last M like a bull at a gate first weekender ive had that was out 2/3 times in the week
Will play a different game with this current one though , more selective where & when its used but it will get used i predict 5k between 1st March & 1st Nov :wink: all pleasure