Lotus Emira V6 depreciation!

[BMWZ4MC]

I don’t think Lotus have ever been direct competitors with other cars purely on their price or performance figures. The Elise / Exige had no real equivalents from other manufacturers, even the 4C and A110 fell short of the true essence of Lotus.
That said, the Emira did seem to be an attempt to bring their platform closer to the sales successes of other manufacturers such as Porsche, without crossing the line into “it’s so good it’s almost…boring!” territory.
I don’t think the Emira is a supercar anymore than the Audi R8 is a supercar. They are both extremely good sports cars that have borrowed parts from elsewhere. The Emira is hobbled by its engine choices if it has aspirations of supercar status; the R8 is held back by (almost) every other Audi product made. Even the 911 GT2 / GT3 / Turbo S fall outside of my definition of supercar despite their exclusivity / capability / price / performance.
All that said, if you were driving an Emira, kids (and some adults) would turn their heads to look and ask you to rev it up at traffic lights, which is an essential part of what makes a supercar. I doubt many Cayman drivers experience that. In Sydney, my humble 4-cylinder Exige garners that attention (as well as from oiks in 30-year old Holdens and turbocharged Japanese imports trying to race me) simply because it looks crazy and is very rare here, but I don’t fool myself that it’s a supercar

 

[Boyo]

Depreciation does seem savage on them but as has been said I suspect the existence of the Cayman may well be part of the reason!

A few references to the Cayman in this thread.
I never thought of the Cayman being a competitor to the Emira TBH. The Emira is the closest Lotus have come to a 'supercar' IMO, yet I see the Cayman as just a Boxster with a roof. And the Boxster is often used as reference against the Z4.
Therefore, by association, is an Emira in competition with the G29 (albeit only one has a roof)?

If the above is true, then I don't want an Emira anymore. It's too 'mundane'. I thought the Lotus was 'special'. Maybe my presumptions are not shared by others.

Try driving a Cayman 4.0. You will be surprised how quick it is coupled with tremendous handling.

 

[tomscott]

The thing is anything special is marketed so hard as so, they become very niche and very expensive. Look at the GT3 they were 200k over list at one point. The RS is ridiculous too.

Porsche realised they could market and sell these at high values and have the pedigree and the market attention to become the default.

The Emira was a departure for Lotus to be something more appealing to normal buyers as the standard recipe was too stripped out and basic. The emira is more aimed at M car recipe hence the weight and more plush place to be. I never saw them as supercars. If you want a super car you need 2-300k.

Lotus to me still come across as cottage industry and paying 80k for one I always thought was pushing it. l and is way out of my budget.

Comparing it to other cars on this list tho -

The things I don’t like about the G29 is the fact it drives like an 3/4 series and interior just doesn’t do it for me. Not premium enough looks and feels average for the type of car it is. It’s too compromised for what it is and for a weekend car might as well have the extra seats. Otherwise I really like it and I think if they had given it the M treatment it would be a cracking little car but that focus has gone toward the M2 and you see Mlites everywhere these days. Frankly not interested.

For me as a dad 2 seaters as another prospect isn’t that appealing so I understand why the M2 is a direction because they are aimed at that demographic. Trying to find a special 4 seaters car with isofix that isn’t an M3 is the same sort of discussion.

That is the issue, and we have been spoiled in the past with low production niche experiment cars like the Z4M. Now adays bottom line is the key element and if the marketing research doesn’t add up they don’t make.

The G29 sales numbers are frankly woeful, either it missed the mark or people just aren’t interested. And 7-8 years later they finally release something purists were after but can’t help but feel it’s too little too late.

It’s a testament that even on this forum barely anyone has bought one!

We then end up with a sea of cars that all look and drive the same. Nothing special or really new. Cars that were your every man’s super car like the M3 is 80-120k now just bonkers. The last M3 my dad bought new was an E92 and think it was under £50k and it was discounted

That being said if I had 50-60k to spend I’d be buying a 997.2 GTS, involving, has the premium feel, personally love the looks and is the best compromise between a special sports car and a premium place to be. They are nearly 15 years old now tho and they all need money spent. That being said they are expensive because people want them.

The cay/box GTS is a great car but I don’t think I would buy one because everyone does. I’ve mentioned it before but I also don’t like the way they drive technically marvellous and that’s why I don’t like them. My dad has a 981 GTS and it’s beautifully appointed but the engine just doesn’t feel as lively as the M and the M is a handful and puts a smile on my face. Driving them back to back I expected the M to feel old and compromised but I came away feeling impressed and more involved.

The GTS gets a pass because it’s the best a manufacturer can do with new EU regs so if you want something modern and new I completely get the appeal.

That’s why I haven’t moved from one, bought my first when I was 23 and now 36 and still have one. You can pick nice ones up for nothing compared to the money we’re talking about. Couldn’t justify another 40-50k to get into something else.

Had a few opportunities to buy something further up the ladder and ended up thinking spending that money would make me lock it up so it doesn’t get spoiled. I think the issue is the more you spend the more I would baby it and not enjoy it? Not sure what you guys feel.

Sure it’s not the opinion of many but we’re in a very weird space at the moment. Honestly I can’t see anything but the very niche of cars to climb in value as the government screws us more and more. For me we’re on the precipice of petrol being financially viable. It’s not the can you afford it aspect it’s wanting to pay the money when the market is so dreary.

 

[Pondy]

All that said, if you were driving an Emira, kids (and some adults) would turn their heads to look and ask you to rev it up at traffic lights, which is an essential part of what makes a supercar. I doubt many Cayman drivers experience that.

That is exactly what I mean. OK it may not be an exotic 'supercar', but if others think it is, then it is. It certainly looks like a traditional supercar should.

For me, Lotus have always been special. Not always good special, as they have suffered from all the problems that go with being a small British marque. Nowhere near the level of TVR and those are still very popular.
The whole point of this thread was it would seem that no-one deems Lotus to be 'special' anymore, judging by the residuals of the Emira.

And yet try buying an Esprit for pennies. Or an Elise, or an Exige.

 

[Pondy]

That being said if I had 50-60k to spend I’d be buying a 997.2 GTS, involving, has the premium feel, personally love the looks and is the best compromise between a special sports car and a premium place to be. They are nearly 15 years old now tho and they all need money spent. That being said they are expensive because people want them.

Surely that's because EVERY man on the planet (almost) aspires to a 911?
We get to 50, have a little spare cash lying around, a garage, and go and buy a £30k 911.
Then realise they are an expensive ornament and have got the 'Porsche thing' out of our system so sell them on (for the next bloke of the same mindset to do the same).

I was exactly the same...always aspired to a 911 (since I was a kid in the '70s). Not anymore. For two reasons. Firstly, EVERYBODY has, or has had a 911. They are 'clit cars'.
Secondly I will not forgive the way Porsche behaved in the past few years by selecting who could and couldn't buy their cars, then trying to control the used market to keep residuals as high as they chose. That should be against the law IMO.

I would take a Lotus over a porker any day. It will undoubtedly be a worse car, but I would bet it will be a much more interesting one.

 

[BMWZ4MC]

There’s much more pleasure to be found absolutely wringing the neck of a 190bhp 800kg Lotus than there is in holding back throttle inputs and up-shifting early in a 400bhp 1600kg Porsche. Not that I’m at all biased :wink:

 

[pvr]

Unless the Porsche is a manual of course - and mine is 400 bhp and a mere 1410 kg

 

[tomscott]

That being said if I had 50-60k to spend I’d be buying a 997.2 GTS, involving, has the premium feel, personally love the looks and is the best compromise between a special sports car and a premium place to be. They are nearly 15 years old now tho and they all need money spent. That being said they are expensive because people want them.

Surely that's because EVERY man on the planet (almost) aspires to a 911?
We get to 50, have a little spare cash lying around, a garage, and go and buy a £30k 911.
Then realise they are an expensive ornament and have got the 'Porsche thing' out of our system so sell them on (for the next bloke of the same mindset to do the same).

I was exactly the same...always aspired to a 911 (since I was a kid in the '70s). Not anymore. For two reasons. Firstly, EVERYBODY has, or has had a 911. They are 'clit cars'.
Secondly I will not forgive the way Porsche behaved in the past few years by selecting who could and couldn't buy their cars, then trying to control the used market to keep residuals as high as they chose. That should be against the law IMO.

I would take a Lotus over a porker any day. It will undoubtedly be a worse car, but I would bet it will be a much more interesting one.

Maybe, but it's because they are great cars and do so much so well. In pretty much every respect, the Emira is more a Cayman/box competitor anyway.

I can't really get on board with these "Behavior" arguments. Especially if it was never on the cards to buy a brand new one, budgets in this thread are around box/cay level at most. Need double that to be concerned with this argument.

Plus, basing a decision on company behavior is also a bit silly. Pretty much every brand has played these games over the years. Some are more documented than others. The people who it affects aren't bothered anyway because they still bought them. Apple make some of the best products on earth, but the corporate culture is shocking and BS at best.

I would argue that the 997 gen cars aren't of the Porsche of nowadays; the GT3 was in such small numbers and the GTS was a run-out model to get rid of the parts before the 991. Now its the default.

Let's be fair, reading behind the scenes, Porsche through that period was helping prop VWs quarterly figures, and this behavior was part of it. Look at the biggest percentage profit in the group and make it a cash cow. It is about 20% on ICE cars, through covid im sure this was higher. The percentage is down to 9-11%, which is part of the turnaround on the electric direction.

But ye been there done that, but unfortunately, it wasn't the one I wanted. It didn't cost me all that much, and I made a 7k profit on it through Covid.

The thing it taught me more than anything is how good value the Z4M is. Genuinely believe that with some sus mods etc you've got a car thats 90% as good as a 911 and super rare by todays standards. So I ended up buying another one.

Something about the 2000s era got a lot right, passion-based, so many good cars. Todays cars aren't the same for many reasons as most couldnt exisit because of tax and emissions standards.

On harrys garages newest vid a Clio 182 which was about 15.5k when it was new would be about 26k €32k now. In France any car CO2 emission above 190 would be taxed 70k. Because its 194 the Clio would be over €100k in todays money. Absolutely insane.

Just shows where we are and why there are so many boring cars.

Apparently the new electric cayman, because of development costs, will start at £130k

The new Harries Garage video is rather good. Worth a watch

[youtube]Ahi6tLr9m7Kf05iR[/youtube]

 

[JakeS76]

Here's the link to the Pistonheads thread where they mentioned that they are customer rejects.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=2102212&i=20

 

[Pondy]

Here's the link to the Pistonheads thread where they mentioned that they are customer rejects.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=2102212&i=20

But a few posts on there was this....

"I went there last week had a good look at them all.....reason they got them is they did a deal with Lotus to buy all the ex-demonstrator stock as Lotus wanted to sell them and the Auto 100 execs know someone high up @ Lotus apparently ..... so they managed to do a deal to take the lot! (6 got sold last weekend alone including mine!).

All come with latest firmware updates @ point of sale time & none have bubbling panel issues they were all fixed before Auto 100 took them on as part of the sale agreement.

Here is the Atlantic Blue one you liked! its lovely in person!!"

 

[Boyo]

All that said, if you were driving an Emira, kids (and some adults) would turn their heads to look and ask you to rev it up at traffic lights, which is an essential part of what makes a supercar. I doubt many Cayman drivers experience that.

That is exactly what I mean. OK it may not be an exotic 'supercar', but if others think it is, then it is. It certainly looks like a traditional supercar should.

For me, Lotus have always been special. Not always good special, as they have suffered from all the problems that go with being a small British marque. Nowhere near the level of TVR and those are still very popular.
The whole point of this thread was it would seem that no-one deems Lotus to be 'special' anymore, judging by the residuals of the Emira.

And yet try buying an Esprit for pennies. Or an Elise, or an Exige.

Happened to me plenty of times

 

[Sit]

My friend with his previously had a 991 Carrera 4S in Crayon which was a visually stunning car but also £30k more than the Emira. In the short time he has had the Emira he has had more interest/peteol station chats/photos taken than he ever did in the Porsche and has £30k in his bank!!

It’s a stunning design and brings the Lotus game on in leaps and bounds.

Si

 

[tiglon]

The Emira is a head turner in the way that no Porsche is, apart from maybe a really beautiful classic.

There's little link between that and price/residuals though. I used to work in Knightsbridge and you'd see all manner of purple and gold Bugattis and Lamborghinis go past, but the one car I witnessed actually attracting the most attention from passers by was a white Alfa 4C, which was worth about £45k at the time.

 

[coldel]

Interesting read. I would agree with some that Lotus overpriced the Emira, I also remember pre launch they were talking about £60k for one which made it possibly the best sports car money could buy new if it drove like a Lotus. I think we could all see it was Lotus swansong, they wanted something that looked stunning but wasn't the low volume hardcore cars they made of old.

I appreciate the Porsche technical prowess, but it doesn't hold a candle to driving a Lotus. I owned two VX220s and to be honest, climbing out of that and into an E85 is like swapping over and driving a bus. The difference is night and day. Every petrolhead should whilst they have the chance have a go at owning a Lotus chassis car.

BTW how are prices of the Evora going? My mind makes me wonder if these have been forgotten about and could be a decent purchase, they are in their own right brilliant cars too.

 

[Pondy]

BTW how are prices of the Evora going? My mind makes me wonder if these have been forgotten about and could be a decent purchase, they are in their own right brilliant cars too.

Very strong from what I gather. Which is strange, considering the Emira is essentially an Evora with a prettier frock and a much classier interior.

 

[Beerman]

BTW how are prices of the Evora going? My mind makes me wonder if these have been forgotten about and could be a decent purchase, they are in their own right brilliant cars too.

There is a thread on Pistonheads from 2015 with the discussion being when the Evora will drop to £20k. 10 years later the cheapest Evora on AutoTrader is £26k.

Looking at the top end of the Evora sales the prices overlap the Emira. I don't get that at all. I would buy an Emira over an Evora. The Emira is 6 years newer.

The same happened with the last Lotus Europa. It wasn't liked too much when new. Values tanked, but somehow later in life they have become more desirable and valuable. I can't see the Emira continuing to slump on the initial depreciation curve.

One thing that does surprise me is the volume of Emiras registered so far. By Q2 2024 there is already around 1350. That's big numbers for Lotus. Maybe oversupply is an issue.

 

[coldel]

I remember during COVID years Evora's being sub £20k

 

[Fred Smith]

I don't understand why someone who doesn't like cars would spend £80k on a sports car. And I don't understand why someone who does love cars would buy a sports car brand new unless they were certain it was a car to own long term, or they were very confident of low depreciation. Surely if you love cars you want to get as close to break even as possible so you can afford to buy the next one sooner?

The Emira look to me like A.N.Other "supercar". Obviously lovely and a head turner, but special? Not for me. Lotus are a brand I like a lot, but don't love... if I were buying one I'd be looking at something like an Exige or something really old. I would not be looking for comfort or frills.

And I don't get the comparison to Porsche... Porsche to me are their own special thing. If you want Porsche looks and performance buy a Porsche, because Porsche are Porsche and Porsche do Porsche better than anyone else does Porsche. I can see why many people want Porsche looks and performance, but then again they're not for everyone.

 

[coldel]

To be honest you could use the Porsche analogy for anything. A TVR is a TVR for example. For me Porsche are just too mainstream, they are everywhere. I guess that does though make them affordable to buy (less so to own). I would compare an Emira to a Cayman because they both try to do similar things, and are in similar price brackets, in terms of being an every day sports car.

But the Emira and the Exige are totally different beasts, you could jump in an Emira and comfortably drive about, flip the fan on if its hot, listen to some music. An Exige has an asthmatic air con system and you need to install one million watt speakers to hear anything. It will also rattle and shake your body apart, whilst giving you a very visceral experience. For me the Emira sits between the Exige and the Cayman.

 

[buzyg]

I thought buying a Lotus was about the driving pleasure. This thread seems strange to me. All about the value. Something wrong with the world there.