Lost 20 BHP on a low mileage engine

[dhobbs]

Short town journeys can kill mpg.
An Italian tune is always good (a good blast once warmed up).
Check your tyre pressures too, that can have a big effect on mpg.
You may be tempted to get some additional fuel cleaner, BG44k is a good one as are Archoil products. Your choice on this one, some on here think they are snake oil, but that's up to you. Continue with Vpower and you won't go wrong.

 

[Smartbear]

I’ve been on V Power since I bought it last September. However, I have no clue what previous owners used.

It might also be worth noting that over the past 3 years she’s seen only 3000 miles on the road and has spent most of her time in the garage. I mention this as the technician at Evolve suggested that cars have to be driven hard to maintain their power, and if garaged for long periods can be susceptible to carbon build up. He also alluded that the power loss most probably lies within the cats, however could not confirm this.

The figures are HP and not BHP I believe. (Excuse the topic subject error).

I’m getting the fluids changed at ML in a couple months and might consider a Terraclean mainly because I’m getting low 20s with conservative driving and high teens with spirited. I do get low 30s on the motorway but I have heard of others getting mid 20s to low 30s for conservative town driving.

I may take it to Surrey Rolling Road once the work is complete. And will of course post the results if I do.

:roll:

I think he may have made a mistake there, I don’t believe any car has suffered from carbon deposits because it’s been garaged :?
Rob

Fairs, out of interest, what sort of fuel economy were you getting on your e85 Rob?

I could get 40mpg on a long run & around 35 on my 24 mile commute over A & B roads from my old 3.0si
Rob

 

[chrisgreen]

I wouldn’t worry too much - most cars from factory rarely produce what manufacturers claim - if the car feels healthy and puts a smile on your face that’s all that matters. Z4s aren’t exactly the most powerful cars out there so HP figures aren’t the end of the world

 

[Monkeydonkeyratmagic]

Another question is. When was the last time the rollers were inspected and calibrated?

I always use Mountune for Fraud motors as an example here.

My fiesta is 200ps overboost 180ps off it.

Yes these geniuses list their MR215 pack map as reading 217ps but with the factory / before map pack giving 206bhp over 3 runs. Not many people paid attention to this and still flocked to spend 700£ on a map and a flimsy ally airbox but hey. I still call custard on that factory read out they still provide to this day. Unless they put 102 racing fuel in and ducted say a dense Nox mix in.

 

[Tcochrane92]

The figures are HP and not BHP I believe. (Excuse the topic subject error).

... how are the figures HP?
As was pointed out previously, the dyno guy can "correct" the measured* BHP and then guess how much to add back on to account for braking losses.
Sorry OP, but unless you can replicate the same dyno figures on a 3rd, independent party dyno, I wouldn't believe any figures they show you as they want to sell you their amazing million pound map that'll give you another 10/12bhp (don't believe it)

They've shown you BHP values and are then trying to make you believe that you're down 20"b"hp in order to make you buy their map. The guy is feeding you rubbish. Sitting for a while doesn't cause carbon deposits.
The power that your car is producing is normal

*dynos technically don't measure power

I feel it's somewhat important to play the "I have a degree in this stuff + work in the industry" card

If you want any further information, send me a PM and I'll happily give you a call to explain stuff further. No need to go wasting your money based on biased, uneducated opinions from a salesman

 

[Scooba_Steve]

the technician at Evolve suggested that cars have to be driven hard to maintain their power, and if garaged for long periods can be susceptible to carbon build up.

Ding ding, I call bullshit.

 

[Smartbear]

The figures are HP and not BHP I believe. (Excuse the topic subject error).

... how are the figures HP?
As was pointed out previously, the dyno guy can "correct" the measured* BHP and then guess how much to add back on to account for braking losses.
Sorry OP, but unless you can replicate the same dyno figures on a 3rd, independent party dyno, I wouldn't believe any figures they show you as they want to sell you their amazing million pound map that'll give you another 10/12bhp (don't believe it)

They've shown you BHP values and are then trying to make you believe that you're down 20"b"hp in order to make you buy their map. The guy is feeding you rubbish. Sitting for a while doesn't cause carbon deposits.
The power that your car is producing is normal

*dynos technically don't measure power

I feel it's somewhat important to play the "I have a degree in this stuff + work in the industry" card

If you want any further information, send me a PM and I'll happily give you a call to explain stuff further. No need to go wasting your money based on biased, uneducated opinions from a salesman

I believe their map could increase power by 10/12 bhp, they added almost 100bhp to my zed and never claimed it was below par beforehand
Rob

 

[Tcochrane92]

The figures are HP and not BHP I believe. (Excuse the topic subject error).

... how are the figures HP?
As was pointed out previously, the dyno guy can "correct" the measured* BHP and then guess how much to add back on to account for braking losses.
Sorry OP, but unless you can replicate the same dyno figures on a 3rd, independent party dyno, I wouldn't believe any figures they show you as they want to sell you their amazing million pound map that'll give you another 10/12bhp (don't believe it)

They've shown you BHP values and are then trying to make you believe that you're down 20"b"hp in order to make you buy their map. The guy is feeding you rubbish. Sitting for a while doesn't cause carbon deposits.
The power that your car is producing is normal

*dynos technically don't measure power

I feel it's somewhat important to play the "I have a degree in this stuff + work in the industry" card

If you want any further information, send me a PM and I'll happily give you a call to explain stuff further. No need to go wasting your money based on biased, uneducated opinions from a salesman

I believe their map could increase power by 10/12 bhp, they added almost 100bhp to my zed and never claimed it was below par beforehand
Rob

They added 100bhp to an N52? :|

 

[Smartbear]

No, my zed has an n20. I said I believed they could add 10 to 12bhp to the n52.
Maybe the op got confused as to what the guy said as in an earlier thread he was insisting that n52’s have shims...
Rob

 

[Tcochrane92]

No, my zed has an n20. I said I believed they could add 10 to 12bhp to the n52.
Maybe the op got confused as to what the guy said as in an earlier thread he was insisting that n52’s have shims...
Rob

The N20 is not naturally aspirated though, so it's entirely different

They can certainly crisp up throttle response and remove flat spots, maybe add a bit of power, but not a great deal

 

[Smartbear]

No, my zed has an n20. I said I believed they could add 10 to 12bhp to the n52.
Maybe the op got confused as to what the guy said as in an earlier thread he was insisting that n52’s have shims...
Rob

The N20 is not naturally aspirated though, so it's entirely different

They can certainly crisp up throttle response and remove flat spots, but I don't believe they can add 10bhp to the N52, as previously stated. They can make you believe you have 10 more bhp with fake dyno graphs

I don’t for one second believe they need to fake Dyno graphs, I also know my car isn’t na and mentioned it as proof of a real power hike (with no fake graph)
Evolve have a good reputation and don’t overstate any gains they can get.
I’d be more suspicious of someone that insisted n52’s have shims :?
Rob

 

[Ducklakeview]

the technician at Evolve suggested that cars have to be driven hard to maintain their power, and if garaged for long periods can be susceptible to carbon build up.

Ding ding, I call bullshit.

Likewise, an engine that isn't being run CAN'T build up carbon..

FFS, that's a new one on me, and I've heard a lot of so called "good" advice over the years :x

Mike

 

[Z4M-2006]

I wouldnt sweat it in the least..

Dyno runs and subsequent graphs can even be altered by how the car is strapped down.....

The internet is awash with tales of cars not meeting their BHP on tuners rolling roads.

 

[R60BBA]

Here’s a link of the footage:

https://instagram.com/p/BevT5eildRk/

Car was pulled in 4th gear.

 

[MACK]

I'd be more concerned by the low fuel economy than one rolling road session. However the two together would imply an issue. That said is your fuel economy actually that bad. You say you've only had the car since September. It's obviously cold out there this time of year and if you're only doing short journeys the car will take longer to warm up hurting fuel economy over what the same car might achieve in the summer. Might be worth having it scanned to see if there's any soft codes in it that aren't flagging a warning light. That said plenty of parts can still be partially up the wall without a code actually being created but if they're miss reading power and emissions could be affected.

 

[R60BBA]

I'd be more concerned by the low fuel economy than one rolling road session. However the two together would imply an issue. That said is your fuel economy actually that bad. You say you've only had the car since September. It's obviously cold out there this time of year and if you're only doing short journeys the car will take longer to warm up hurting fuel economy over what the same car might achieve in the summer. Might be worth having it scanned to see if there's any soft codes in it that aren't flagging a warning light. That said plenty of parts can still be partially up the wall without a code actually being created but if they're miss reading power and emissions could be affected.

Only time will tell in regards to fuel economy and the weather.

Apart from fuel economy, the only ‘thing’ I’ve noticed with this car is that when I lift the clutch to the bite it makes a rattling/chattering sound after I’ve driven it hard. It doesn’t do this when the car is cold, or if it’s warm but hasn’t been ragged.

But the clutch is still strong so I don’t know whether it’s an issue or not.

 

[MACK]

I'd be more concerned by the low fuel economy than one rolling road session. However the two together would imply an issue. That said is your fuel economy actually that bad. You say you've only had the car since September. It's obviously cold out there this time of year and if you're only doing short journeys the car will take longer to warm up hurting fuel economy over what the same car might achieve in the summer. Might be worth having it scanned to see if there's any soft codes in it that aren't flagging a warning light. That said plenty of parts can still be partially up the wall without a code actually being created but if they're miss reading power and emissions could be affected.

Only time will tell in regards to fuel economy and the weather.

Apart from fuel economy, the only ‘thing’ I’ve noticed with this car is that when I lift the clutch to the bite it makes a rattling/chattering sound after I’ve driven it hard. It doesn’t do this when the car is cold, or if it’s warm but hasn’t been ragged.

But the clutch is still strong so I don’t know whether it’s an issue or not.

Now that sounds like the dual mass flywheel and I wouldn't worry about that too much. Many manual cars suffer this and can carry on for many 10s of thousands of miles without it causing any issues. Usually you can just leave it till the clutch needs replacing. It wont be causing your lack of power etc.

I take it that as you havent mentioned it that the car runs smoothly and revs cleanly etc.

 

[R60BBA]

I'd be more concerned by the low fuel economy than one rolling road session. However the two together would imply an issue. That said is your fuel economy actually that bad. You say you've only had the car since September. It's obviously cold out there this time of year and if you're only doing short journeys the car will take longer to warm up hurting fuel economy over what the same car might achieve in the summer. Might be worth having it scanned to see if there's any soft codes in it that aren't flagging a warning light. That said plenty of parts can still be partially up the wall without a code actually being created but if they're miss reading power and emissions could be affected.

Only time will tell in regards to fuel economy and the weather.

Apart from fuel economy, the only ‘thing’ I’ve noticed with this car is that when I lift the clutch to the bite it makes a rattling/chattering sound after I’ve driven it hard. It doesn’t do this when the car is cold, or if it’s warm but hasn’t been ragged.

But the clutch is still strong so I don’t know whether it’s an issue or not.

Now that sounds like the dual mass flywheel and I wouldn't worry about that too much. Many manual cars suffer this and can carry on for many 10s of thousands of miles without it causing any issues. Usually you can just leave it till the clutch needs replacing. It wont be causing your lack of power etc.

I take it that as you havent mentioned it that the car runs smoothly and revs cleanly etc.

I too think it’s the flywheel.

Hopefully won’t keep the car long enough to fork out for a new clutch :lol:

The car is uber smooth, whether pushed hard or simply cruising. My cousin drives an A45 and says it delivers the power quite a bit smoother than his. I’ll probably take that with a pinch of salt but it’s still testimony to the engine’s overall smoothness.

Last week I managed to beat an E92 M3 off the lights in damp conditions, so I know it is capable (albeit at the next set of lights the driver admitted he couldn’t get full power down due to lack of traction and he was carrying a passenger.)

 

[MACK]

Only time will tell in regards to fuel economy and the weather.

Apart from fuel economy, the only ‘thing’ I’ve noticed with this car is that when I lift the clutch to the bite it makes a rattling/chattering sound after I’ve driven it hard. It doesn’t do this when the car is cold, or if it’s warm but hasn’t been ragged.

But the clutch is still strong so I don’t know whether it’s an issue or not.

Now that sounds like the dual mass flywheel and I wouldn't worry about that too much. Many manual cars suffer this and can carry on for many 10s of thousands of miles without it causing any issues. Usually you can just leave it till the clutch needs replacing. It wont be causing your lack of power etc.

I take it that as you havent mentioned it that the car runs smoothly and revs cleanly etc.

I too think it’s the flywheel.

Hopefully won’t keep the car long enough to fork out for a new clutch :lol:

The car is uber smooth, whether pushed hard or simply cruising. My cousin drives an A45 and says it delivers the power quite a bit smoother than his. I’ll probably take that with a pinch of salt but it’s still testimony to the engine’s overall smoothness.

Last week I managed to beat an E92 M3 off the lights in damp conditions, so I know it is capable (albeit at the next set of lights the driver admitted he couldn’t get full power down due to lack of traction and he was carrying a passenger.)

Now you said that it explains the fuel economy. It's the way your be driving it!
Seriously though if it's running smooth/well to the point someone thinks it's smoother than their 4 pot turbo, you've probably not got too much to worry about.

 

[markalp]

Now that sounds like the dual mass flywheel and I wouldn't worry about that too much. Many manual cars suffer this and can carry on for many 10s of thousands of miles without it causing any issues. Usually you can just leave it till the clutch needs replacing. It wont be causing your lack of power etc.

I take it that as you havent mentioned it that the car runs smoothly and revs cleanly etc.

I too think it’s the flywheel.

Hopefully won’t keep the car long enough to fork out for a new clutch :lol:

The car is uber smooth, whether pushed hard or simply cruising. My cousin drives an A45 and says it delivers the power quite a bit smoother than his. I’ll probably take that with a pinch of salt but it’s still testimony to the engine’s overall smoothness.

Last week I managed to beat an E92 M3 off the lights in damp conditions, so I know it is capable (albeit at the next set of lights the driver admitted he couldn’t get full power down due to lack of traction and he was carrying a passenger.)

Now you said that it explains the fuel economy. It's the way your be driving it!
Seriously though if it's running smooth/well to the point someone thinks it's smoother than their 4 pot turbo, you've probably not got too much to worry about.

I think he is getting excellent fuel economy, i'm ashamed to say what i'm getting *coff* 10-14mpg around town *coff*

However that is because of the way I drive, and, I know and accept it lol