Light output upgrade

M

Magicarcher

Active member
 Warwickshire
I am considering upgrading my Halogen lights to get better light performance. Considering going for HID lamps for dipped behind the projector lens, and later fit LED for main beam as I think they are getting quite good for point source lighting now and will be less scattery.

The HID I am considering is Car Rover https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01HOAZ...liid=I29MEYBOM9LNVQ&colid=10WL9WENIFZ41&psc=1

Has anyone fitted this model for dipped? Is the beam pattern, reliability and bulb failure avoidance any good?
 
Rusky said:
After market Hids are now an MOT failure i believe.
Click to expand...

From April, yes they are.

However, because both the halogen AND Xenon lamps use the same projector, albeit with a different mount at the rear, IF you have headlamp washers, there is every chance an MOT inspector wouldn't spot it, as long as you don't go mad with the colour temp, ie stick to 5000k. BOTH lamps are marked on the lens as H7/DS2.


Mike
 
I didn't realise that the xenon used the same projectors as the halogen, does this mean that with an HID aftermarket kit the light shouldn't scatter like the really naff ones you see people using with lenses they clearly shouldn't be?
 
Removing the projector lens (4 bolts) and wiping the dust off made a big difference to the light output on my car, worth trying that as well.
 
dunks said:
I didn't realise that the xenon used the same projectors as the halogen, does this mean that with an HID aftermarket kit the light shouldn't scatter like the really naff ones you see people using with lenses they clearly shouldn't be?
Click to expand...

Yes, but you MUST get a kit with metal bases on the "bulbs" as the plastic based ones are too thick and distort the metal blips that hold them in place.

And as above, giving the projector lens a wipe massively improves things, they actually go cloudy with the dust - DON'T be tempted to wipe the actual reflector though!

Mike
 
Thanks for all your posts, I hadn't realised HIDs would be illegal post April, though I am not surprised too many people are fitting them on parabolic reflectors (or worse faceted parabolic reflectors) and they are blinding. That is why I was proposing just fitting HID to dipped beam and not full beam. I am not worried about colour temperature, just want to improve the intensity and light penetration.

Does anyone know the actual ruling for example is it:

  • If MOT man finds an aftermarket HID period it will fail (in other words ballasts and bulb failure module will need to be hidden away)
  • Is it the colour temperature they will fail
  • Is it the light output they will fail

I am taking it as a given the beam pattern must be ok.

Is it fair to assume the 55W kits are more likely to cause an MOT issue than the 35W kits?

Finally have any similar rulings been made regarding LED bulbs?
 
dunks said:
I didn't realise that the xenon used the same projectors as the halogen, does this mean that with an HID aftermarket kit the light shouldn't scatter like the really naff ones you see people using with lenses they clearly shouldn't be?
Click to expand...

Not really as the lens is the same but cone and location mounting very different. Take a generic xenon and stick it in where a halogen was and it's no surprise with the light emitting from a different point and different shape source bulb, the end result is hit and miss if the light is scattered or reasonably focussed

Personally I'm delighted aftermarket xenon will fail with so many badly aimed lights on the road and am sure most MOT testers will spot it in an instant from beam brightness, knurled adjusters, no stickers, etc. etc,

Anyone interested in the new MOt then the handbook in draft is on the .gov site

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/671818/mot-inspection-manual-for-classes-3-4-5-and-7-from-20-may-2018-draft.pdf

Section 4 covers headlights and is very clear:
Some vehicles may be fitted with High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps. It is not permitted to convert existing halogen headlamp units for use with HID bulbs. If it is clear that such a conversion has been carried out, rather than replacing the entire unit with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs, the headlamp should be rejected.

There's also detailed advice on testing, spotting a HID bulb, etc.
 
I tried a 35w kit in my original headlamps, improvement, but still not the best. A 55w kit was MUCH better. I have now fitted facelift bixenons, and they are great.

Evidence of an aftermarket kit is a straight fail, although the tester cannot remove the back of a headlamp to check.

New rules;

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/671818/mot-inspection-manual-for-classes-3-4-5-and-7-from-20-may-2018-draft.pdf

Mike
 
Ducklakeview said:
I tried a 35w kit in my original headlamps, improvement, but still not the best. A 55w kit was MUCH better. I have now fitted facelift bixenons, and they are great.

Evidence of an aftermarket kit is a straight fail, although the tester cannot remove the back of a headlamp to check.

New rules;

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/671818/mot-inspection-manual-for-classes-3-4-5-and-7-from-20-may-2018-draft.pdf

Mike
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike, great read. I am guessing they wont need to remove the back off the headlamp because the intensity + slow start up time will give the game away. Not too chuffed to hear this, I find the standard halogen lights are simply not good enough for the country lanes where I live and was looking forward to an upgrade. It is a little disappointing that they have chosen to go so black and white which will penalise those that are sensible. It would have been much better if the beam pattern + colour temperature + luminous intensity were measured during MOT rather than "are aftermarket HID bulbs fitted!"

The document doesn't seam to make LED bulbs illegal for headlights though providing they are not blueish. They are nowhere near as bright as 55W HID and I have concerns over reliability + packaging the two boxes that go with them, but may investigate this route.
 
Magicarcher said:
Ducklakeview said:
I tried a 35w kit in my original headlamps, improvement, but still not the best. A 55w kit was MUCH better. I have now fitted facelift bixenons, and they are great.

Evidence of an aftermarket kit is a straight fail, although the tester cannot remove the back of a headlamp to check.

New rules;

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/671818/mot-inspection-manual-for-classes-3-4-5-and-7-from-20-may-2018-draft.pdf

Mike
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike, great read. I am guessing they wont need to remove the back off the headlamp because the intensity + slow start up time will give the game away. Not too chuffed to hear this, I find the standard halogen lights are simply not good enough for the country lanes where I live and was looking forward to an upgrade. It is a little disappointing that they have chosen to go so black and white which will penalise those that are sensible. It would have been much better if the beam pattern + colour temperature + luminous intensity were measured during MOT rather than "are aftermarket HID bulbs fitted!"

The document doesn't seam to make LED bulbs illegal for headlights though providing they are not blueish. They are nowhere near as bright as 55W HID and I have concerns over reliability + packaging the two boxes that go with them, but may investigate this route.
Click to expand...

Problem with LED's, in aftermarket form is the beam pattern, as the aftermarket ones tend to be made of lots of small, separate LEDs. I agree with the ruling TBH, as there are so many (chavs) out there with kits fitted into their Clios, Fiestas and Corsas that literally DO blind other motorists coming towards them> I would bet some have even caused accidents.

Mike
 
With our headlights and washers I think it will be a push to fail them, as they are identical from the outside, but time will tell.

And while I type some gopping blue glare fest HIDs in reflectors go driving past my window :rofl:
 
Ducklakeview said:
Problem with LED's, in aftermarket form is the beam pattern, as the aftermarket ones tend to be made of lots of small, separate LEDs. I agree with the ruling TBH, as there are so many (chavs) out there with kits fitted into their Clios, Fiestas and Corsas that literally DO blind other motorists coming towards them> I would bet some have even caused accidents.

Mike
Click to expand...

I have spent a fair bit of time looking into LEDS, I agree the main problem is the beam pattern particularly with parabolic reflectors and clear "glass" headlights. But they have come a long way and the latest bulbs with Philips ZES LEDs are a great deal better because the LEDs themselves are tiny and can closer emulate the point source nature of a filament. I am currently trying some out on my Mini, I started by replacing the H11 foglights with some Philips ZES based LEDs and the difference was amazing. I have a bit of a problem that the BMW bulb failure detection routine makes one of them flash 14 times when ignition is turned on and the incorrectly named Canbus box doesn't stop it happening, but in operation they are out of this world. I have driven the 25 miles to work in the dark twice now with them on and not been flashed by anyone, so their focus cannot be too bad.

I have just ordered the same make LEDs in H4 and will be fitting them, that will be the real test because the positioning of the dipped beam LEDs will be a lot more crucial. Happy to feedback how I get on.

I wasn't saying I disagree with stopping the numskulls that are blinding everyone, the point I was making is they could have been more objective in stopping them. Light intensity, colour temperature and beam pattern are all measurable. It may have been because OE HID usually come with auto headlamp levelling so if a car goes over humps, they adjust down. Aftermarket fitment doesn't solve that problem.
 
Magicarcher said:
BMW bulb failure detection routine makes one of them flash 14 times when ignition is turned on and the incorrectly named Canbus box doesn't stop it happening
Click to expand...

This is the bulb check, CANBUS compatible simply adds a resistor so the monitoring senses the same load and doesn't show a bulb being out (negating the powerr savings of LEDs), you can code the checks out to stop it.
 
Scooba_Steve said:
Magicarcher said:
BMW bulb failure detection routine makes one of them flash 14 times when ignition is turned on and the incorrectly named Canbus box doesn't stop it happening
Click to expand...

This is the bulb check, CANBUS compatible simply adds a resistor so the monitoring senses the same load and doesn't show a bulb being out (negating the powerr savings of LEDs), you can code the checks out to stop it.
Click to expand...

I know exactly what it is, but it has nothing to do with CAN. CAN is a serial communication standard to support the communication between two electronic units. It is not possible to communicate with a halogen bulb with can or any other serial communication protocol such as LIN, MOST, Flexray (well you could try but you won't get much of an answer). So the so called "CANBUS modules" should not have this name. It will be interesting to see what they call these modules them as the industry moves away from CAN towards other protocols such as Flexray.

What they are in fact doing is getting round the bulb failure detection systems in vehicles (with or without CAN) that rely on detecting the impedance of the standard lamps. Since LEDs/HID control units have a much higher impedance than a filament bulb (which when cold has a particularly low impedance), fitting LEDs or HIDs can lead the car to come to the conclusion that the "bulb" has failed and send a bulb failure warning.
 
Nothing indeed but that's what they call them. To stop the checks there are two codes to turn off (one hot, one cold) and one for the dash warning.
 
Scooba_Steve said:
It doesn't, the cut-off is fine. Driving at night with halogens was awful, I'd suggest everyone do it.
Click to expand...

Hi Scooba Steve, I take it you have AM halogens fitted? Did you fit the ballast inside the lamp? If so did you have one of the units with only one ECU that tends to be called DC Ballast or one with two boxes that tends to be called AC Ballast. Do they fit OK in there?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom