LED Headlight bulbs

[walker1c]

I sent an enquiry to Horizon LED and got a very quick and helpful reply.

With regard to heat, the "bulb" has a copper braid heatsink about 10cm long at the back, but this apparently only gets warm. I'd be surprised if an LED unit generated as much heat as a halogen bulb, but of course the heat may be in a different location. Most of the heat from a halogen is radiated onto the reflector, from where it's presumably re-radiated forwards. If an LED unit creates much heat behind the reflector that might be a problem.

I've contacted Philips to ask for more information. They sell lots of automotive LEDs, so it wouldn't surprise me if they're just very new.

I've just paid for the Z4, so I don't feel like blowing £100 on a headlamp experiment at the moment. Maybe in a few weeks...

Edit: On second thoughts, maybe not. While searching for H7 LEDs, I came across this article, which appears well-informed. It's about HIDs, but I found the link to it in this thread about LEDs. The concensus seems to be against H7 replacement.

 

[cj10jeeper]

Daniel Stern is highly rated in the evaluation of lighting. I'd trust what he says.

I've long argued that simply shoving a retrofit HID into a halogen projector doesn't have a car in hells chance of creating a correct beam (hence no doubt amongst why they are often failed on MOT's) I doubt LED is any different.

Secondly heat is a massive issue on LED's. Although they don't generate that much heat compared to say a halogen they are really sensitive and can drop to a fraction of the original light output in months. Big issue with domestic lighting..

 

[Scooba_Steve]

That article seems to reference only reflector type optics, which I agree are terrible with HID kits. Having fitted a kit to my standard halogens, with projector optics and H4/D2S stamped on the lamp I am happy there is no glare just much more light output and more consistent spread. The beam cut-off is sharp and has passed an MOT with no issues (admittedly headlamp washers are fitted). If I didn't think it was acceptable then I wouldn't have kept the kit in. I'd advise everyone to install a HID kit, night time driving is so much safer being able to see in front of you

That said I'm still not convinced about LED applications.

 

[walker1c]

I'm not an expert, but the images below suggest that in both reflector and projector lamps the size, shape and position of the light source relative to the reflector is critical. Daniel Stern's point seems to be that the issue is not only oncoming dazzle, but the fact that an incompatible light source effectively changes the headlight from a spotlight to a floodlight.

 

[Scooba_Steve]

From my experience having fitted a kit it's not an issue in our headlamps. I presume the reflector is compatible with both sources due to what is stamped on the outer lens. Though I'm no expert either! Would like to think that glare would fail the MOT though.

 

[cj10jeeper]

From my experience having fitted a kit it's not an issue in our headlamps. I presume the reflector is compatible with both sources due to what is stamped on the outer lens. Though I'm no expert either! Would like to think that glare would fail the MOT though.

Your presumption re the reflector being compatible with both isn't correct. The marking on the outer polycarb cover is just an either /or of Halogen or D2S bulb is what is fitted. The actual lens is different, as is the reflector cone. I've stripped several down and understand them in detail. The 2nd image posted above shows just how complex the relationship is between source of light and how the resultant beam is focussed and the Daniel Stern article (latter part) covers it in detail. On our lights the distance is set using 4 nuts and bolts on long studs and is set for each light unit. Not difficult to see that stick an different bulb into a lens that is designed and focussed for a halogen and the result may well be poor.

I agree with you entirely that for visibility brighter lights are way better, but to assume that because you pass an MOT and you think it has a sharp cut off, doesn't make it right.

I'm sure we'll agree to differ and it's a topic discussed endlessly elsewhere, now were just looking at another source of light in LED as a retrofit.

 

[Scooba_Steve]

Fair one, I'll take your point on different internals. I'll only differ in that I don't think a HID kit produces noticeable glare in our lights, if it did I certainly wouldn't have gone down that route even if it isn't quite right it's a very cost effective solution to get more light on the road in front of you, night driving was horrible before I made the change.

 

[phillip75]

LEDs can do a great job, but they need different focusing optics than conventional light bulbs. The headlight reflector needs to be designed to match the light source that is being used. You can't put any other bulb in there, be it an LED or a bulb with a filament and get the intended result, unless the new source is positioned in the same place as the original, and also disburses light around the reflector in the same way as the bulb for which the reflector was designed. That means that it is unlikely that a drop-in LED replacement bulb will yield the same results as the original bulb, unless the LED manufacturer can simulate the optical characteristics of the original bulb precisely, which due to the heat sinking requirements of high power LEDs, and the fact that LEDs emit light out of only one side, as opposed to all around like a light bulb filament, will be very difficult.

 

[Darkangelv2]

With LED 'filament' designs becoming prevalent in domestic use, it may not be inconceivable that an LED replacement for filament headlamps will become available in the near future. Heat management and efficiencies are what LED developers are spending all their time and money on.

These 2D circuit board mounted designs (throwing light at 180 degree opposites) will, as is mentioned above, require some specific optics to work correctly/safely. They will also suffer quite short lifetimes (in terms of LED) as I suspect they are highly over-volted to achieve the light output and won't be able to dissipate heat quite as efficiently as they would ideally require.

I guarantee those particular LEDs are not outputting the lumens specified as they will not have been tested in a sphere. They are theoretical outputs at best. HiD lamps only produce <3500LM so why would you need an LED to produce in excess of 4000!?

PS. I like that they post their illegible certification on their advert however clicking on them simply takes you to their eBay store lol!

 

[aliveankikin]

Quick update:

Ive had no problems atall with the LED's I fitted (see beginning of this post) I was so pleased with them that I fitted some LED H1's
(ebay 351468695125 £27.99 6400lm) in the main beam. Being seperate lenses the H1's are extremely bright but not focused as several have discussed this. They do not line up with the dip lights, much too high and glare. They are much better than the standard halogens mind. I did a bit of fiddling and got a better result AND the car passed its MOT

 

[aliveankikin]

I also fitted some ventilated, Performance Sport Drilled and Grooved Front and Rear Brake Discs and performance Pads, I also had the disc's treated with a black protective coating. Now they are bed in they feel great, progressive and strong, silent and no judder or anything and there is hardly any brake dust. Chuffed. I don't know if its just me, but every time I make a modification to the car, it feels faster and more stable and takes the corners much better lol even after washing it. I love this car and enjoy every moment (until something goes wrong again....touch wood)

 

[Zikim]

The company is called "U-Kars Store" they are a very sound company, extremely helpful and delivery was only 6 days (though it states could be much longer)

The link is: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/45W-4500X2-LM-H4-H13-9004-9007-H-L-H7-H11-9005-9006-Headlights-White-PHILIPS-LED-/161505670605

Ask for Tina

Did you pay any import duty on these?

I would like to get a set but at £69 the price is a bit steep. Has anyone used any of the UK kits that are nearly half the price such as these?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-H7-499-High-Power-CREE-LED-50W-Projector-Bulb-HeadLight-Daytime-Fog-Light-DRL-/221705131216?fits=Model%3AZ4&hash=item339ea7d4d0:g:xKYAAOSw0HVWFREK

 

[aliveankikin]

Sorry for the delay, just returned your PM

 

[Zikim]

The company is called "U-Kars Store" they are a very sound company, extremely helpful and delivery was only 6 days (though it states could be much longer)

The link is: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/45W-4500X2-LM-H4-H13-9004-9007-H-L-H7-H11-9005-9006-Headlights-White-PHILIPS-LED-/161505670605

These are now being sold for the next 1 hours at £59 - £10 off

 

[Zonili]

This is seemingly an old thread, but I'll add my two cents.

I find that products designed by a company like Philips and manufactured in China under Philips' supervision can be higher quality than products designed in China to be as inexpensive as possible and that are either sold to individuals on sites like Alibaba or to Western companies that relabel them with their own brand.

Five years ago, I installed Philips LED like this https://10carbest.com/led-headlights-bulbs daytime running lights (DRL's) that were more expensive than DRL's sold on Alibaba or obviously relabeled by a Western company. These DRL's are on whenever I drive and continue to work without their LED's failing as seems to happen frequently with lower quality LED lights. Maybe I've just been lucky, or maybe paying a bit more for Philips DRL's was a smart move.

However, the Philips headlight bulbs referenced are H4 bulbs with both high and low beam LED's in a single bulb whereas the i3's high beam headlights need only high beam LED's. So one is paying for probably twice as many LED's as required and may be getting a bulb that doesn't work as well with a reflector and lens designed for a bulb with only a high beam light source.

While some of the Philips LED headlight bulbs are described as being optimized for reflectors and lenses designed for tungsten filament bulbs, it's just not possible for a LED bulb to emit its light from as tiny a volume as a tungsten filament bulb, so the light pattern produced by retrofitted LED bulbs will almost certainly be inferior to that produced by a tungsten filament bulb. The LED light color will be hotter (i.e., whiter) and the LED light intensity might be greater, but the light might not be projected where it should be. In many countries, LED retrofits are not legal because of this.

 

[road warrior]

i am confused - are there differant bulb fittings on z4's ? i have tried fitting led bulbs to my 2.0 e85 , and because there is a fan on the end the silly push on connecter ( no 14) cant work and you need an adapter, which i bought but didnt fit.
the only thing that would work properly with the led bulbs is the good old fashioned spring clips.
or is there something i dont know..


http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/showparts?id=BZ12-EUR-11-2005-E85-BMW-Z4_20i&diagId=63_0758