LED H7 bulbs? Who's running them?

Mr Whippy

Senior member
Harrogate
I keep buying halogen and replacing halogen and generally finding halogens expensive and poor performing.


These new LED H7 replacements look impressive and worth trying but there doesn't seem to be much of a spread in products or quality reviews/info.

It's a bit of a gamble if they'll fit, boxes that need to be fitted (Philips ultinon show a random inline box in pics), and prices from £10 to £180!



Has anyone paid out the ~ £150 for the Philips ones?

I'm very tempted to just buy some £30 ones from a decent eBay seller to try.

I suppose ultimately xenon in the h7 housings *was* the way to go but with the new MOT rules it might be harder to go with them.

Then again these LED are currently not road legal either.


So these lower priced LEDs certainly seem appealing, and I'd imagine (but can't be sure) that they're similar to the Philips ones, just without the brand overheads.
 
I bought these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/OPT7-Headlight-Bulbs-Clear-Arc-Beam/dp/B00VNBDOV2/ref=sr_1_50_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1518438951&sr=8-50-spons&keywords=LED+H7&psc=1

Then when they arrived and I tried to install them I found they wouldn't fit because the Z4 uses an adaptor to plug in the bulb and the heatsink is in the way.

There are some that might fit physically but they seem to be the cheap ones that are likely to be as bright as a candle. Good luck finding anything that will fit and is worth having.

I actually kept the LED bulbs and fitted them to our e91 330i instead. They are very bright and work well. The only downside being I have to keep one of the covers off one light as it won't fit over the top of the heatsink. They actually have a small fan inside to aid cooling and work fine in the enclosed space of a headlight.
 
I'm very slightly tempted by the Xtreme Ultinon at about £135 but I'd be a bit gutted if they didn't fit.

For the dipped beam projectors on the outside I wonder what the clearance is.

I have some spare back covers iirc, I could cut one across its length and then fit on my removed headlight and get a proper idea of space etc...
Doesn't help with fitting clearance either though, that can be a bit of a task too!

Hrmmmmm
 
I have had the same dilema as you, should I go for LED H7s on my Z4. As a trial I decided to try some LED H4s on my Mini. I watched a lot of reviews on youtube focusing on the more objective ones, that measured light output and beam pattern. The Supernova V3 with 6 x 5W Philips Lumileds ZES per bulb came out very well https://headlightrevolution.com/supernova-v-3-led-headlights-h4-bulbs/. These are some of the latest generation LED bulbs. In UK online car lighting shops they are selling at £120, but on Amazon they can be bought for £40.

Bear in mind Mini has a reflector so I was facing a potential beam pattern issue.

Fitting them was easy, though supplied "CANBUS" module failed to stop bulb errors or lights flashing when ignition was switched on, but I coded them out.

They look bright but I wasn't totally convinced they were brighter than my Philips Extreme vision bulbs. So I decided to do a simple test.

With the LED bulbs in I took my digital SLR and set the ISO speed manually to 400ASA, Set the white balance manually to Daylight, then used manual exposure on and the built in lightmeter to photograph the scene in front of me (I live in a dark cul-de-sac in the countryside). On dipped beam with an aperture of 3.5 it required 5 seconds for the exposure on dipped beam and 4 seconds on full beam (I used tripod).

I then took the LEDs out and replaced with Philips Extreme Vision. Switched my lights on and my immediate reaction was how dull everything looked in front of me. Switched the camera on with the exact same apertures and shutter speeds. I was convinced that the metering on the camera was going to read under exposed on the halogen bulbs, but it did not, it was the same 5s for dipped, and 4s for main beam. I took all photos and have just compared them on my computer.

The light intensity and level of detail is identical for the Supernova V3 LEDs and Philips Extreme Vision Halogen. The LEDs look very white, and have the perception of being brighter whereas the Halogens look yellow and less bright. But the reality is they both produce the same amount of light. The beam pattern of both appear identical in low beam or high beam (60 miles of night driving with LEDs not been flashed by an opposing driver)

Advantages of LEDs: They consume less power if you don't use the "CANBUS" module, they look brighter.
Disadvantages of LEDs: Questionable legality, appear to only be available in 6500K I would prefer 5000k, reliability is an unknown quantity (ignore the claims of 30,000 hours life, they are the sort of figures for sedate little LEDs used on TVs, these are LEDS driven very hard that need efficient heatsinking to get the heat away and are driven by electronic circuits. To put this into perspective most people average about 30mph I cannot see these bulbs lasting for 900,000 miles!)
 
I'm a bit confused on your SLR approach as metering variables were added into the mix.
Wouldn't it be better to do the exact same shutter/aperture/ISO before/after rather than let the metering decide on exposure time?

Still it doesn't sound like they passed the gut feeling test which is important.


Maybe a well installed HID is still the way to go.
Or retrofit OE... as the cost of 4x decent LED bulbs isn't cheap!
 
Mr Whippy said:
Wouldn't it be better to do the exact same shutter/aperture/ISO before/after rather than let the metering decide on exposure time?

Probably confused you with my explanation. That is exactly what I did, both sets of photos taken at 5s shutter speed for dipped, 4 seconds for main beam, Aperture 3.5, ISO fixed at 400ASA (this needs to be manually fixed else some digital cameras can adjust ISO even in manual mode!) and fixed daylight colour temperature.

But even in manual mode the camera has a built in meter which I set to centre weighted, that reads the light that will fall on the CCD with the manual setting you have chosen. This tells you whether the scene will be exposed correctly (zero), or under/overexposed in 1/3 stop increments.

So I took the two shots first with LED with the correct manual settings to give a metering value of zero. Then left camera as is on the tripod, substituted for Philips Extreme Vision halogens and took the photo again. To my surprise the meter remained on zero (I expected 1/3 to 1 stop under exposed) suggesting the light reflected back from the subject was identical. I took and compared the photos (I have them but have nowhere to host them else I could include, they are interesting). The LEDs are white, the Halogen Yellow, but the amount that can be seen and the distance with both is identical, as is beam pattern (another surprise). however I must say subjectively the white ones look brighter.

I am in quite a dilema, I love the construction of this particular LED bulb and I think the white light looks better and appears brighter, but in reality it is no brighter, of unknown lifespan, 2.5 times the price of Philips extreme vision and 6500k rather than the 5000k I would like. For these reasons I probably won't buy them for my Z4.
 
Ah ok thanks for the clarification!

Hmmm not so good then.

I've noticed some LED bulbs with much higher lux values, like double or triple the Philips bulbs.

It's certainly an area I'll keep an eye on coming into winter again... I think the market should mature quite quickly as it won't take long for people to call out the good/bad bulbs now they're out there.
 
Mr Whippy said:
Ah ok thanks for the clarification!

Hmmm not so good then.

I've noticed some LED bulbs with much higher lux values, like double or triple the Philips bulbs.

I wouldn't say not so good, they look brighter TBH, but they are just not brighter than Philips Extreme Vision when measured. One thing I would point out though is on my Mini I found one burned out bulb holder with the Philips Extreme Vision, they may not have been the sole reason, but they do run hotter than conventional Halogen bulbs.

I would be very careful with high lux values sellers will claim all sorts of things that they know you cannot prove, checkout headlight revolution on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQF5ESBHLrw (bear with the video it won't be to everyone's liking), they actually measure the output and beam pattern, you will see the claims from some sellers are very misleading. The LEDs I chose were the latest generation and were top 3 in their review of 15 LEDs.

I have just taken all the LEDs off my mini because I discovered a government website that made it absolutely clear that the fitment of any external LED not fitted by manufacturers is not legal. I would not like to be involved in a crash and then give the insurers an easy option to invalidate my insurance because the car isn't legal. It is probably the reason why even philips have a disclaimer on their £150 lights to say the buyer must check their legality in their country before fitting.

I hope there is a change over time because apart from the fact the ones I chose were no brighter than Philips Extreme Vision I was really pleased with them. The beam pattern to the eye was not discernible from Halogen, which surprised me.

Mr Whippy said:
It's certainly an area I'll keep an eye on coming into winter again... I think the market should mature quite quickly as it won't take long for people to call out the good/bad bulbs now they're out there.

I guess what is needed is for someone to get some e'marked as a genuine replacement for a halogen, then I can't see how they will be illegal, but this is a costly process and the far eastern ones are unlikely to do so. like you I am keen to see the developments.
 
Lamps are legally approved to what they come with OEM. Changing light source in this case led makes the lamp illegal. The lens and reflector are designed specifically to meet legal requirements for that light source in that position in space.
 
Rldee007 said:
Lamps are legally approved to what they come with OEM. Changing light source in this case led makes the lamp illegal. The lens and reflector are designed specifically to meet legal requirements for that light source in that position in space.
Excellent topic necro.

thecremeegg said:
perfectly legal/will pass MOT
Those are two different things. An MOT tester cannot dismantle anything and the testing manual advises that the benefit of doubt must be given.
 
That may be, however if it passes the MOT then I think 99.9% of us will take that and run with it. And yes, great necro, I hadn't noticed hah
 
MOT don't bother to check them as they only check the pattern and don't have the equipment to measure the lux. If you watch old Wheeler Dealers they now state this isn't legal.

They are not illegal to sell but are yo retro fit.

I use to design headlamps. The lamps are homologated to specific light source. The numbers you get on your lamp next to E* is specifically telling you the light standard, hand of drive and light source it is designed to. The test points are completely didn't numbers between HID and halogen.
 
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