Lamba error codes from INPA

[Quakes]

Hi guys

Car is Z4MR with 70k miles

I'm starting to lose it a bit on this one if anyone is around that can work out o2 error codes as this one seems strange. The pre cat o2 sensors are reporting mixture to rich and then the post cat sensors are reporting mixture too lean I have searched and searched and can't work out why.

Symptoms - Strong fuel smell, bad mpg 13-17 depending on driving, running poorly - feels like it is misfiring tho no misfire codes

Things done - I had a poor idle and hesitation, following a forum post i bent the pins on the MAF sensor for better connection and those issues got alot better ( I had already had the code for the post cat o2 sensors)

INPA readout

$FehlerOrtNr: 11391
$FehlerOrtText: 2C7F lambda probe rear catalyst 2, trimm control
57042C7FA210114D072838670260007F3867034D007A386E035B007F
Error: 1(4) Nr: 11391 2C7F lambda probe rear catalyst 2, trimm control frequency: 7
type of error: 2 (69 ) Exhaust gas after catalytic converter too lean
readiness flag: (16 ) Test conditions fulfilled
error-statur: (33 ) Error not present now, but already stored
MIL - Status: (49) Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
P-Code: P114D Post Catalyst Fuel Trim Via Oxygen Sensor System Too Lean (Bank 2) F_LZ: 40
environment-text / entry at 115568 km(n.) 115512 km(2.) 115512 km(1.)
voltage lambdaprobe rear catalyst bank 2 0.06 V 0.06 V 0.04 V
voltage lambdaprobe front catalyst bank 2 1.78 V 1.50 V 1.88 V
Lambda shift return control 2 0.00 - 0.00 - 0.00 -
Input signal return control 2 0.62 V 0.60 V 0.62 V
___________________________________________________________

$FehlerOrtNr: 11307
$FehlerOrtText: 2C2B lambda probe front catalyst, systemcheck
57042C2BA11021960328386830029369386B30029367386E3003935F
Error: 2(4) Nr: 11307 2C2B lambda probe front catalyst, systemcheck frequency: 3
type of error: 1 (39 ) Mixture too rich
readiness flag: (16 ) Test conditions fulfilled
error-statur: (33 ) Error not present now, but already stored
MIL - Status: (49) Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
P-Code: P2196 O2 Sensor Signal Biased/Stuck Rich (Bank 1 Sensor 1) F_LZ: 40
environment-text / entry at 115568 km(n.) 115544 km(2.) 115520 km(1.)
ceramics temperature lambdaprobe front catalyst bank 1 768.00 °C 768.00 °C 768.00 °C
voltage lambdaprobe rear catalyst bank 1 0.06 V 0.04 V 0.04 V
Lambda nominal value group 1 1.15 - 1.15 - 1.15 -
voltage lambdaprobe front catalyst bank 1 1.86 V 2.01 V 2.05 V
___________________________________________________________

$FehlerOrtNr: 11390
$FehlerOrtText: 2C7E lambda probe rear catalyst, trimm control
57042C7E8200114B012538690265007F000000000000000000000000
Error: 3(4) Nr: 11390 2C7E lambda probe rear catalyst, trimm control frequency: 1
type of error: 2 (69 ) Exhaust gas after catalytic converter too lean
readiness flag: (16 ) Test conditions fulfilled
error-statur: (32 ) Error not occurred yet
MIL - Status: (49) Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
P-Code: P114B Post Catalyst Fuel Trim Via Oxygen Sensor System Too Lean (Bank 1) F_LZ: 37
environment-text / entry at 115528 km(1.)
voltage lambdaprobe rear catalyst bank 1 0.04 V
voltage lambdaprobe front catalyst bank 1 1.97 V
Lambda shift return control 1 0.00 -
Input signal return control 1 0.62 V
___________________________________________________________

$FehlerOrtNr: 11308
$FehlerOrtText: 2C2C lambda probe front catalyst 2, systemcheck
57042C2C810021980128386E30019365000000000000000000000000
Error: 4(4) Nr: 11308 2C2C lambda probe front catalyst 2, systemcheck frequency: 1
type of error: 1 (39 ) Mixture too rich
readiness flag: (16 ) Test conditions fulfilled
error-statur: (32 ) Error not occurred yet
MIL - Status: (49) Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
P-Code: P2198 O2 Sensor Signal Biased/Stuck Rich (Bank 2 Sensor 1) F_LZ: 40
environment-text / entry at 115568 km(1.)
ceramics temperature lambdaprobe front catalyst bank 2 768.00 °C
voltage lambdaprobe rear catalyst bank 2 0.02 V
Lambda nominal value group 2 1.15 -
voltage lambdaprobe front catalyst bank 2 1.97 V
___________________________________________________________


===========================================================================================
$DATAID: 004 9R200 840S 0ZEHC
=== 03.07.2015 === 00:57:54

Aktueller Kilometerstand: 0 km
___________________________________________________________

Commandline 1:
Commandline 2:
___________________________________________________________


$FehlerOrtNr: 11391
$FehlerOrtText: 2C7F lambda probe rear catalyst 2, trimm control
57042C7FA210114D072838670260007F3867034D007A386E035B007F
Error: 1(4) Nr: 11391 2C7F lambda probe rear catalyst 2, trimm control frequency: 7
type of error: 2 (69 ) Exhaust gas after catalytic converter too lean
readiness flag: (16 ) Test conditions fulfilled
error-statur: (33 ) Error not present now, but already stored
MIL - Status: (49) Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
P-Code: P114D Post Catalyst Fuel Trim Via Oxygen Sensor System Too Lean (Bank 2) F_LZ: 40
environment-text / entry at 115568 km(n.) 115512 km(2.) 115512 km(1.)
voltage lambdaprobe rear catalyst bank 2 0.06 V 0.06 V 0.04 V
voltage lambdaprobe front catalyst bank 2 1.78 V 1.50 V 1.88 V
Lambda shift return control 2 0.00 - 0.00 - 0.00 -
Input signal return control 2 0.62 V 0.60 V 0.62 V
___________________________________________________________

$FehlerOrtNr: 11307
$FehlerOrtText: 2C2B lambda probe front catalyst, systemcheck
57042C2BA11021960328386830029369386B30029367386E3003935F
Error: 2(4) Nr: 11307 2C2B lambda probe front catalyst, systemcheck frequency: 3
type of error: 1 (39 ) Mixture too rich
readiness flag: (16 ) Test conditions fulfilled
error-statur: (33 ) Error not present now, but already stored
MIL - Status: (49) Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
P-Code: P2196 O2 Sensor Signal Biased/Stuck Rich (Bank 1 Sensor 1) F_LZ: 40
environment-text / entry at 115568 km(n.) 115544 km(2.) 115520 km(1.)
ceramics temperature lambdaprobe front catalyst bank 1 768.00 °C 768.00 °C 768.00 °C
voltage lambdaprobe rear catalyst bank 1 0.06 V 0.04 V 0.04 V
Lambda nominal value group 1 1.15 - 1.15 - 1.15 -
voltage lambdaprobe front catalyst bank 1 1.86 V 2.01 V 2.05 V
___________________________________________________________

$FehlerOrtNr: 11390
$FehlerOrtText: 2C7E lambda probe rear catalyst, trimm control
57042C7E8200114B012538690265007F000000000000000000000000
Error: 3(4) Nr: 11390 2C7E lambda probe rear catalyst, trimm control frequency: 1
type of error: 2 (69 ) Exhaust gas after catalytic converter too lean
readiness flag: (16 ) Test conditions fulfilled
error-statur: (32 ) Error not occurred yet
MIL - Status: (49) Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
P-Code: P114B Post Catalyst Fuel Trim Via Oxygen Sensor System Too Lean (Bank 1) F_LZ: 37
environment-text / entry at 115528 km(1.)
voltage lambdaprobe rear catalyst bank 1 0.04 V
voltage lambdaprobe front catalyst bank 1 1.97 V
Lambda shift return control 1 0.00 -
Input signal return control 1 0.62 V
___________________________________________________________

$FehlerOrtNr: 11308
$FehlerOrtText: 2C2C lambda probe front catalyst 2, systemcheck
57042C2C810021980128386E30019365000000000000000000000000
Error: 4(4) Nr: 11308 2C2C lambda probe front catalyst 2, systemcheck frequency: 1
type of error: 1 (39 ) Mixture too rich
readiness flag: (16 ) Test conditions fulfilled
error-statur: (32 ) Error not occurred yet
MIL - Status: (49) Error would cause a warning lamp to light up
P-Code: P2198 O2 Sensor Signal Biased/Stuck Rich (Bank 2 Sensor 1) F_LZ: 40
environment-text / entry at 115568 km(1.)
ceramics temperature lambdaprobe front catalyst bank 2 768.00 °C
voltage lambdaprobe rear catalyst bank 2 0.02 V
Lambda nominal value group 2 1.15 -
voltage lambdaprobe front catalyst bank 2 1.97 V
___________________________________________________________


Sorry for posting this just not sure what to do

Cheers

Jon

 

[sk93]

that sounds very much like dieing o2 sesnors to me... expect to find a barrel to lean over

 

[Quakes]

lol yep im lubing up :/

I'm guessing the post o2 sensor have gone and are reporting not enough fuel and adding more in so the fronts just keep reporting too much fuel correctly.

Anyone understanding the voltages?

voltage lambdaprobe rear catalyst bank 2 0.06 V 0.06 V 0.04 V
voltage lambdaprobe front catalyst bank 2 1.78 V 1.50 V 1.88 V

The rear volts look wrong... both look pretty wrong i believe they are meant to be 0.9 volts?

Cheers

Jon

 

[sk93]

they both look borked from that..
pretty sure they're supposed to be between 0.2 and 0.8v
i'd imagine the front is so high because it's overfueling, and you might see it drop to an acceptable level once the rear is fixed.

that said, they could now also be fucked due to the overfueling causing them to stick...

 

[Quakes]

I think bmw want ~£220 each just for the sensors making it a £1000 hope without fitting prices

I might try disconnecting the rear o2 sensors and see what happens :/

 

[sk93]

I think bmw want ~£220 each just for the sensors making it a £1000 hope without fitting prices

I might try disconnecting the rear o2 sensors and see what happens :/

expect emissions warning light to come on and the car to run like a dog..

told you they weren't cheap

 

[Scooba_Steve]

Would the rears become toast? I'd be tempted to try replacing the pre-cat pair and see what then happens - you can do these easily enough DIY and I found the sensors on Amazon for £80 each (genuine Bosch). The post-cat are a bit more of a pain...

 

[Mister T]

Have you checked for the obvious split hose between air flow meter and inlet manifold?

 

[Quakes]

I'll have a look after work. I think an inlet leak should show lean on the pre cat o2s tho as the car would be getting too much air? I'll try anything right now tho

Cheers

Jon

 

[AndyBeech]

If you've got INPA, run the 'Adaptation mixture' option at idle when warm and post up a screenshot here, just take a picture with your phone or something. Also, the 'irregular running and o2 sensor' info and same screenshot. Might shed some light on what's going on, should look something like this:

 

[Quakes]

Hi Andy

Two videos posted to youtube hope thats ok

http://youtu.be/1faLZbVzclI
http://youtu.be/cMRWrPg_TuM

Thank you for looking

Cheers Jon

 

[AndyBeech]

Hi Jon,
Thanks of the vids. So I'll have a better look later, on first look though, yes the post cat lambda sensors are reading quite lean, pre cat seems about right.
Secondly, your 'injection time correction at idle, is all over the show, I would expect a bit of movement obviously but your correcting up to 12% at some points at idle. There's nothing conclusive on what could cause that, or more like there's a hell of a lot of things that could cause that. have you reset your adaptations recently?
At this stage, deffo the post cat sensors look goosed, not guarenteed fix but not a bad place to start.
Also, a longer video at idle would be useful, let the values settle a bit maybe. What version of INPA do you have out of interest? If you look at the VANOS screen what does the intake adjustment come up as?

 

[Quakes]

Hi Andy

Thank you so much for looking at this

It is INPA 5.0.2

Adaptations were all reset a few days ago I've also left the battery unplugged for a few hours aswell

http://youtu.be/Q_QFs5e4tRE and http://youtu.be/Bz6BPDp0K-Q are Adaption mixture for 2.30 each (app crashed half way through)
http://youtu.be/YCjrMPvAn2Y is VANOS it didnt seem to move so reved it half way though
http://youtu.be/MMIjFZYtK7w is The irregular running screen
http://youtu.be/MsNr3AO3hnI is some other screens if they are helpful

Anything else that might be helpful let me know

Cheers

Jon

 

[AndyBeech]

I wouldn't reset the adaptations again unless you need to TBH. Just means your car will have to learn what fuel trims etc it needs by default to run more smoothly. Unless you've changed a significant part of the engine leave it as is.

1) Was the smooth running values after idling at hot for a few minutes? If so, cylinder 6 has an issue, from factory fresh the values should be around 0, as tolerances differ as the engine gets older, this will naturally deviate from 0 but should not be going much over .700 +\- at idle. Cylinder 6 is somewhat over that hanging around at about '-1.1' which you can see compared to the other cylinders is not quite right. DIS states anything between 0<>.800 is good, .800<>1.500 is ok and anything out of that is bad. In basic terms, it measures how strong each cylinder is firing for every so many crank rotations. So for whatever reason, cylinder 6 isn't firing as well as the others, cylinder 3 isn't great either but not as bad. Many things could cause this, spark plug failing, coil pack failing, not enough air in that cylinder, not enough fuel being delivered, etc etc. Could result in misfires, hesitation, pulsing feeling through the car at idle. This could be a symptom or cause of your issues.

2) The post cat lambda reading is too low. I THINK. If someone else with INPA and a good running car could post up a similar screenshot as we have done we could prove/disprove this. But it's throwing error codes so safe bet it's wrong. Worth noting some of those error codes haven't actually recorded an error as yet though. The 'test conditions' have been reached, but it has to happen so many times before the error is confirmed and an engine warning light comes up. My opinion, and this is only an opinion, your results for pre cat lambdas look ok, which says to me somewhere between that lambda and the post cat ones something isn't right. So, it's either the post cat sensors themselves, the cats, or an exhaust leak between the two sensors. None of those options, sadly, are cheap! The upshot is, as you can see by your 'injection correction values',especially on bank 1, is that your fuel trims are way out.

To be honest, your probably best going to a specialist indy with this one, see what they say

 

[Quakes]

Yep let it idle up to warm for a few minutes

Do you know if unplugging the rear o2 sensors will shed any light? Does it run default settings?

Thank you so much for going through all that I will find someone reputable round here in Cardiff and see what they think with all this information.

If i swap the coil and spark plug from cylinder 6 to cylinder 1 will this tell me much?

Cheers

Jon

 

[AndyBeech]

Yep let it idle up to warm for a few minutes

Do you know if unplugging the rear o2 sensors will shed any light? Does it run default settings?

Thank you so much for going through all that I will find someone reputable round here in Cardiff and see what they think with all this information.

If i swap the coil and spark plug from cylinder 6 to cylinder 1 will this tell me much?

Cheers

Jon

No point unplugging, it will just try to guess the mixture, run like crap basically. Swapping the coils plugs with a good cylinder can't hurt though if it's an easy one for you to do.