It's not the tyres, it's not the car, it's the roads!

eurgain

Member
 North-East Wales
Hi, all

I thought that the Z4 with run-flats and sports suspension was borderline acceptable on local Welsh roads, with tramlining and bumpiness, and completely unacceptable on English and Scottish roads, with crashing and jolting. (The roads here in Wales certainly feel much better maintained that over the border to the East!)

I now know, that it is the roads, not the car. For months, driving my runflat-equipped 3.0 SE Z4 in France and Italy, it does not tramline, and it does not ride too hard.

I have been away for quite a while, and driven more than 13k km, in France, Belgium and Italy. I **loved** my Z4: it was delightful! A great Autoroute cruiser, hood up or down, and a tight sportscar on the windy north Italian roads. On returning, I drove out from the channel tunnel Shuttle onto the M20 and was bounced around, assailed with noise, and had to hold onto the steering wheel, and remembered why I thought the 4 to be such a bloody awful dog before I left.

The most startling difference is the noise! British roads are SO noisy. This is a misery for those driving, but is so much more of a misery to those living or standing next to the roads. When I returned to the UK, I had completely forgotten how intrusive traffic noise is here. It is not just because there is more traffic (and by goodness, there is) it is because the road surfaces here cause tyres to make so much more noise. In a lone car, this means that there is more noise in the cabin. In traffic, this means one can hear more noise from every other nearby vehicle, especially lorries. I really feel sorry for those living near the road, who could have so much less noise polution.

The dreadful ride on British roads is also startling. We were on the A303 and A34 dual-carriageways today, and the only comparison that I could find was with the upper Valle de Susa on the approach to the Tunnel du Frejus in the high alps that suffers from some of the worst weather and highest HGV loading in the whole of Europe! UK motorways now seem bumpy and very noisy to me. Even the lightly-trafficed M6Toll has violent vertical excursions, bumps, and hidden features that make the car tramline.

I'm moving to France next year, so I don't mind! Everyone else, write to your MP!

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Moving to France! Lucky guy. Some of the roads here in the states are god awful. There's a huge pothole near my house that's been there eight years that I'm aware of . I looked into it the other day and I think I saw a V.W. beetle at the bottom. :D
 
I agree about European roads compared to here. We went on a road trip and loved it. The drivers in Europe are much better as well, they have great lane discipline. You don't see cars in the overtaking lanes driving at the same speed as the other lanes.

But from what I've read changing the tyres do help to make the ride more comfortable. Basically RFTs are rubbish for the roads we have around here but that's because the roads are rubbish and the tyre stiffness transfers that to the rest of the car :(

I envy you moving to France with your Z4. You'll even have more days for top down action if you have the roadster.
 
louZ4 said:
Moving to France! Lucky guy. Some of the roads here in the states are god awful. There's a huge pothole near my house that's been there eight years that I'm aware of . I looked into it the other day and I think I saw a V.W. beetle at the bottom. :D

In France, driving on minor roads requires care and/or local knowledge. Anything less than a route départmental is generally rough and can have any depth of pothole you can imagine. However, these are low-speed roads - 50kph limit. Some 50kph roads in town can also be rough and potholed, and can have badly marked roadworks with holes several metres deep! But at least, between the works and the holes, the roads are not too bad.

It is on the free roads, with speed limits of 90 or 110, the roads are very good in France (and in Italy, Belgium, Germany and some other countries, IME) that the roads are SO much better than in the UK.

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I've never been to France without seeing an RTA. I think the french are sometimes so unaware of other traffic as they dont have to be on the ball as much as we do, and a nasty accidents can happen as a result.

They have great lane disipline on the motorways though, mid-lane hogging just doesn't happen!
Also, yes the quality of the road surfaces p00's all over ours from a great height :x
 
Dreamer said:
I've never been to France without seeing an RTA. I think the french are sometimes so unaware of other traffic as they dont have to be on the ball as much as we do, and a nasty accidents can happen as a result.

They have great lane disipline on the motorways though, mid-lane hogging just doesn't happen!
Also, yes the quality of the road surfaces p00's all over ours from a great height :x

Following from lane discipline, coming from France to the UK is a complete mindbender!

UK drivers are known throughout Europe as the drivers that get in the way of faster traffic (not keeping to the right). Every other country has drivers that see a fast car coming up from behind, and think "I'd better get out of the way". A Driver from the UK never looks in his or her mirror when doing within 10k of the speed limit since no reasonable person would want to pass them.

A GB plate car will stay in the left lane if they can see any car ahead (irrespective of any other car on the road) just in case they will need to pass that car. The GB car may also stay in the left lane if there is no other car in sight *just in case* they may need to pass a car in future. If you come up behind that GB driver, and want to pass, well you cannot, because the GB driver will consider you are going too fast. If you think this is not true, just try driving on any Briish Motorway! Many a GB car will move right only at the end of their journey (whether or nor there is another car to pass) or when the driver dies.

Contrary to expectations, most Italian drivers drive slowly. However, that is fine, because slow Italian drivers are really good at getting out of the way of faster drivers! I love driving in Italy! The slow divers get out of the way (compare this with British drivers).

Dutch drivers are ponderous, law abiding, and always tow caravans. They get out of the way of faster traffic (unlike British drivers)

German drivers rarely get in anyone's way and just clear off into the distance, unless they have the misfortune of getting stuck behind a British driver who thinks that they are going fast enough....


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Dreamer said:
I've never been to France without seeing an RTA. I think the french are sometimes so unaware of other traffic as they dont have to be on the ball as much as we do, and a nasty accidents can happen as a result.

They have great lane disipline on the motorways though, mid-lane hogging just doesn't happen!
Also, yes the quality of the road surfaces p00's all over ours from a great height :x
What is "RTA"?

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I'd like to hear from a Z4 driver with run flats and sport suspension who has had experiences with wet cobble stone streets in Europe. It has to be an interesting tale.
 
TO//M said:
I'd like to hear from a Z4 driver with run flats and sport suspension who has had experiences with wet cobble stone streets in Europe. It has to be an interesting tale.

The last one who did is still trying to pry his teeth out of the middle of his head :rofl: :rofl:

There are some roadways in Portland Oregon that are pretty close to cobblestone for a surface. 18" OEM RFTs with the sports suspension are a useless joke on those streets. I have a short stretch like that on my daily commute and that's part of the reason my RFTs got yanked off less than a month after I got my car. I have 17" winter wheels and am strongly considering a set of 17"s for summer touring as well.
 
I agree that Mainland Europe has some great roads - my wife is Belgian so we visit Belgium often and the surfaces are better as soon as we reach France.
I spent 24 years in South Africa - Durban, mostly - and the main roads there are far better too. The Freeway's have lovely smooth surfaces and the roads around many residential areas are first class.

Road manners in SA can vary dramatically, but I find Durban motorists generally more polite. On my last trip my wife was amazed that slow-moving vehicles in single lanes would move onto the hard shoulder in many instances to give a fast approaching car a better view for overtaking! I've NEVER seen a white van do that here!

My biggest gripe about the UK roads is sheer congestion however and I guess I add to it. My wife and I will move to Italy or Belgium as soon as our kids are finished school - only 7 years to go then!
 
TO//M said:
I'd like to hear from a Z4 driver with run flats and sport suspension who has had experiences with wet cobble stone streets in Europe. It has to be an interesting tale.

There's a few cobblestone strips in my town that I get to traverse daily, and a completely brick-lined avenue to boot. I still have the 18" RFT and, in general, drive so few miles that it'll take forever to wear them to the point of natural replacement. And I'm feeling too miserly to buy new rubber when there's still so much good stuff on the original shoes.

But winter is coming... and although a set of dedicated winter tires isn't needed here in central VA, certainly a set of high quality all seasons is worth considering. My last car had summer rubber that I was able to run year round, but we'll see with the Z4. Snow isn't the issue here, but black ice is... and then comes the requisite axle and wheel destroying potholes. :x

Cheers.
 
Agreed on French roads drive down to Le-Mans every year and i love it they do have good lane discipline and always move back into the slower lane when they have past the slower car or they will leave the indicator flashing to let you know they are staying out so as to pass the next few cars but they also love to tailgate if you are not going quick enough and will overtake anywhere blind bend brow of a hill and they will do it in any sort of car.

The French will always warn you of speed traps and police by flashing the head lights :thumbsup:
 
Brought up in France I have different perspectives on some of it. Historically they had appalling roads, drove down the centre riding the crest moving over just in time to avoid head on, but oft forgetting. All Frenach cars had fantastic suspension (wallowy) to compensate for shite roads. They along with Spain, Italy and a few others have over the last decade or so calmed, learnt to drive and way surpassed us in laying a smooth flat strip of tarmac. they also have a climate more condusive to keeping it that way.

Noise was mentioned and I only found out largely by accident that in the UK we persist in building roads where in effect chunks of stone are embedded into the surface of the road. Rain then flows away between them over a non porous layer or tarmac. Noise is of course there as tyres running on a pile of stones isn't great. Later generation surfaces and oft used in Europe (and on the M6T) uses porous tarmac where the water soaks through and drains off below the surface. Result is smoother and quieter (except we don't know how to lay it smoothly and don't repair it)

Still add sunshine, roof down and of most parts of mainland Europe seem a better experience.
 
eurgain said:
I'm moving to France next year, so I don't mind! Everyone else, write to your MP!

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Have to agree with you all too. Recently drove to Monchengladbach and really enjoyed it (apart from the result of the match :cry: ).

Although the route from Calais to Brussels is, along with the M42, the most boring stretch of road in the world. Also the number of lorries from all over Europe can be disconcerting.

What part of France are you moving to? I have spent many years in France, have lived in Caen and Paris, and know the West coast from Nantes to Bordeaux really well.
 
eurgain said:
Dreamer said:
I've never been to France without seeing an RTA. I think the french are sometimes so unaware of other traffic as they dont have to be on the ball as much as we do, and a nasty accidents can happen as a result.

They have great lane disipline on the motorways though, mid-lane hogging just doesn't happen!
Also, yes the quality of the road surfaces p00's all over ours from a great height :x
What is "RTA"?

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Road Traffic Accident
 
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